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AR replacement
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Thread: AR replacement

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Lakewood, CO
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    Default AR replacement

    When Pelosi becomes the President we will need to find a replacement for our semi-auto detachable magazine centerfire rifles. The role that those rifles fill will need to filled with something else at least for public use. My plan is to further develop my Winchester Model 94 Trapper chambered in .30-30. I question if this is the best starting platform. The attributes I am looking for include being compact, light weight, reliable, adequate power, quick followup shots, the ability to reload while keeping the rifle ready, easily obtained ammunition, political acceptance ( don't want to become a felon for exercising my rights) and for my aging eyes I want an optical sight, The optical sight would be an extended eye relief scope mounted forward so ejection would not be an issue. I have a Scout Rifle, Rem. Mod. 600 in .308 with a scout scope which could serve but is a little heavy and slower for follow up shots,

    For such use is the Winchester 94 or the Marlin 336 a better starting point. I have the Winchester and like their light wight and slimness but the side eject and the ability to clean the barrel from the chamber end are good attributes. My Model has a 16 inch barrel. Nice and short but I am not a fan of 16 inch rifle barrels. If I start over with a standard 20 inch barrel I get more velocity and magazine capacity as will as less noise. Does anyone know the difference in velocity between a 16" and a 20" barrel for the .30-30?

    Any other thoughts on this concept? I think there is an AR like rifle that is pump action made for the unfortunate people who live on the west coast.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NM
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    189

    Default Re: AR replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by eknopins View Post
    When Pelosi becomes the President we will need to find a replacement for our semi-auto detachable magazine centerfire rifles. The role that those rifles fill will need to filled with something else at least for public use. My plan is to further develop my Winchester Model 94 Trapper chambered in .30-30. I question if this is the best starting platform. The attributes I am looking for include being compact, light weight, reliable, adequate power, quick followup shots, the ability to reload while keeping the rifle ready, easily obtained ammunition, political acceptance ( don't want to become a felon for exercising my rights) and for my aging eyes I want an optical sight, The optical sight would be an extended eye relief scope mounted forward so ejection would not be an issue. I have a Scout Rifle, Rem. Mod. 600 in .308 with a scout scope which could serve but is a little heavy and slower for follow up shots,

    For such use is the Winchester 94 or the Marlin 336 a better starting point. I have the Winchester and like their light wight and slimness but the side eject and the ability to clean the barrel from the chamber end are good attributes. My Model has a 16 inch barrel. Nice and short but I am not a fan of 16 inch rifle barrels. If I start over with a standard 20 inch barrel I get more velocity and magazine capacity as will as less noise. Does anyone know the difference in velocity between a 16" and a 20" barrel for the .30-30?

    Any other thoughts on this concept? I think there is an AR like rifle that is pump action made for the unfortunate people who live on the west coast.

    Pako Kelly's site has a lot of good lever gun info including some velocity data: https://www.levergunscommunity.org/v...ic.php?t=32004

    Leverguns in general are great; compact, easy to maneuver and come in a wide selection of calibers (22LR to 500SW). I like em!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: AR replacement

    I'm a big fan of Savage model 99s. We've got a few in the safe in .250-3000, ours have the slower twist rate that like the smaller bullets. They can be had in .300 Sav or .308... Handy little rigs....
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein
    "Count your blessings and you will never finish" - Fr. Jim Babb, SJ

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    DITHOT
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    Default Re: AR replacement

    If we let them take our semi-auto rifles, what makes you think that lever and pump guns wonít soon follow, a la England and Australia?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: AR replacement

    And to answer your question, why not a Browning BLR? The detachable mag is a big plus, if youíre comparing to a black rifle...

  6. #6
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    Default Re: AR replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by sab View Post
    And to answer your question, why not a Browning BLR? The detachable mag is a big plus, if youíre comparing to a black rifle...
    I like where you're tracking with this Scott.

    I think you need a Winchester, a Marlin, several Savages, and a BLR. (They make that in a .325 WSM, just sayin')
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein
    "Count your blessings and you will never finish" - Fr. Jim Babb, SJ

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    2

    Default Re: AR replacement

    subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    198

    Default Re: AR replacement

    M1 Garand and surprised and disappointed not mentioned already.

    Ironically not an assault rifle but arguably killed more enemies of this great nation than any other service rifle.

    As for the OPís criteria of compact with optics I would suggest Fulton Armory Tanker Scout model. Optics ready and shorter than standard Garand.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Default Re: AR replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by AO6 View Post
    M1 Garand and surprised and disappointed not mentioned already.
    Ironically not an assault rifle but arguably killed more enemies of this great nation than any other service rifle.
    As for the OPís criteria of compact with optics I would suggest Fulton Armory Tanker Scout model. Optics ready and shorter than standard Garand.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The reason (I think) nobody's cheering for a Garand: cost

    I can buy 3 model 94s for the price of the Tanker Scout with its Guaranty of 2.5 moa. For $2,400+ whatever changes you'd make to it..

    Sorry AO6, (I kinda think you're pulling our chains here, I'm treading carefully, no disrespect intended at all...) I've got a NM Garand (actually, my Dad has it, and a couple of carbines...) but as much as I love them, I wouldn't be trying to make a brush gun out of it... I vaguely recall the days when CMP guns could be had at a reasonable cost, guys like me who recognize how cool they are haven't helped. The accuracy issues with the Mini 14 and Mini 30s, while fixable, bump the cost WAY north of a direct gas gun, just like the ones excluded in the original post.

    If I were looking at surplus rifles, an Enfield carbine would be on the list for me, but, my whims have led me (naively) to projects that I've hated when complete. (that cut down HB FAL that I built on the DSA receiver comes to mind) I'd have a lot of learning to do before building one given that I've got bolt guns in lots peppier cartridges that I know shoot sub MOA off of the bench.... Maybe I should encourage my son to build a jungle carbine.... (edit: ignore all of the underlined, I'd probably look at a 24/47 Mauser, these threads get me in trouble.... I have it in my head that the Yugo Mausers would be more reasonable than a K98 (which I've got, but it's sporterized into a .25-06) )

    Conclusion: Love M1, but cost and performance would be the limiting factors for me, and, it's taken a bit of livin' to conclude: I'm a bolt gun guy, with a side-kink for lever guns....

    Thanks AO6, hope my reply didn't offend, I'll delete and apologize if it does....
    Last edited by robcollins; 03-14-2019 at 04:46 PM.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein
    "Count your blessings and you will never finish" - Fr. Jim Babb, SJ

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    198

    Default Re: AR replacement

    Rob not at all!

    I'm looking at it from a different point of view living in Cali. Its a capable battle rifle which skirts the draconian gun laws while still allowing for fast reloads (watch your thumb!).

    M1a still ok here with 10 rnd mags but I fear the detachable magazine may soon be on the list of naughty things to be banned.

    Yeah Garands are not cheap but I may have missed a price in the OP's post. I think AR replacement and I mentaly am in the price points of KAC, HK and FAL's which the Garand is on par with ($1500-2K ish).

    Lever actions in scout configuration are among my favorite rifles but slow to reload so I feed as I go just as I would a shotgun. One day for no practical reason at all I will own an Alaskan Co-Pilot in .50 Alaskan just so I can walk downrange next to my bullet in flight and watch the VW sized slug hit the plate

    If we dare to be honest a bolt rifle with detachable mag in capable hands is every bit as effective as any AR, it worked well enough for Charles Whitman long before Vegas. Not that I am saying anything positive about either but pointing out banning any type of gun does not ensure these types of shooting wont or cant happen...which is why we are discussing what to do when they ban certain types of guns.

    If we are talking bolt guns in this capacity I really like the Steyr Scouts, lightweight, ergonomic and a fast short throw bolt. Col. Cooper (R.I.P.) put significant thought into the platform and the result was ideal for the intended use. Its pencil barrel does sacrifice accuracy past the first 3 shots which is my only gripe. Been considering getting one in 6.5CM

    Ransom and I have had many chats about the XM-3 and there is little that cant be done with a 16-18" 308 with a 10X optic in a mag fed bolt gun.

    Another of my wish list rifles would be a jungle Enfield in 308. but that isnt going to be cheap so I may just settle for original caliber.
    Last edited by AO6; 03-14-2019 at 04:49 PM.

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