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Thread: New Bag - Shape Charge

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    Eric

    I totally understand wanting to streamline production by using the same frame sheet. Just curious if this design carries weight as good as the Xray?

    Thanks

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Arvada CO
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    Crossada,
    The Xray and Shape Charge are made in very different ways, so they will carry a little different. I will break down both packs separately and then compare which one I think has an edge over the other.

    The Xray has been one of our longest lasting designs and with good reason. Multiple points of access with many options for attaching pockets and has a built-in suspension that works well with and without a belt. Weíve sold thousands to both Soldiers and Civilians alike. The Original patterns were made in 2007 and thatís when we used a wide bottom on the packs that met up with our military delta strap Omni belt. This design wrapped the bottom of the pack around the torso of the wearer and pulled the load in close. This extra dimension also meant that there is more room towards the bottom of the pack which could lead to contents shifting down. The Delta system was very good at controlling the extra capacity of the packs and placing the load on the hips. That is if the belt was being used. A lot of Soldiers donít use the belt because they already have gear on their belts. If they need to carry enough gear to need a belt, they use a bigger pack, or they deal with the weight. The Xray can carry a deceptive amount of weight because of the sewn in stays in conjunction with the Delta Omni belt. The stays are sewn the length of the back panel through all the layers. That last part is important. If the structure of the pack isnít solid all the way through the back panel of the pack, the weight of the contents can flex away from the wearer. The way the Xray, Tarryall and 14er are made is with this sewn through design because it is very effective. It is also very costly and a pain in the ass to sew. In order to simulate this but add more rigidity, I had to add a frame sheet to stretch the back panel around and prevent the bag from flexing away from the wearer.

    So, I had to figure out a way to simplify the sewing process of the back panel with out loosing the structure of the pack. That and I needed to accommodate our current belt, the EDC Omni. The pack had to carry loads comfortably with or without this belt and it needed to be able to carry a radio and have good access to said radio. One thing about the current radio being used by our Armed forces, the Harris Falcon III PRC-117G, is that it has the buttons up top and the battery down below. This means that at some point you will need to get to the bottom, maybe multiple times. The full panel zip was the easiest option for getting to all parts of the radio. The Molle on the upper back gives the end user more options for getting the critical gear they need at the top of the pack where it is predictably accessed. If itís important to a soldier, someone has made a pouch for it and that pouch has Pals webbing on the back. Itís also pretty handy for supporting a 12lb radio high up on the back where it should be. The problem with this system is that I canít sew stay sleeves along the back and if I only have Molle webbing in between the stays then that limits the end user. That meant I had to use a frame sheet that could stretch the bag across a stable platform and simplify the sewing process. Between this frame sheet and the EDC Omni belt with its singular stabilizer strap, I didnít need to have the same construction techniques as the Tarryall, Xray and 14er. This meant the bottom of the pack could taper which would keep the heavy stuff from causing so much instability when it eventually shifts down. All of these needs formed the Shape Charge. It doesnít have load lifters so it will never be a truly efficient internal framed pack like the Tarryall and 14er but it was never meant to be. Ballistic helmets with weight packs on the back donít like tall packs.

    Now the tricky part. With all the differences between the Xray and Shape Charge, which one carries weight the best? My vote is for the Shape Charge because it is built for taller people. Iím 6í4Ē and I prefer some distance between the bottom of the bag and the base of the shoulder straps. In order to use the belt correctly on the Xray, I have to let the straps out, so it will sit low enough for the belt to be in the right spot. Then the pack is shifting away from my upper torso because the straps are let out too far. The Xray gained 1 inch in height a few years back so it was easier to sew but it was added over the torso pad assembly and didnít help fit longer torsos any better. With the Shape Charge, I can load it up and if it gets too heavy, I can throw a belt on and I donít need to touch the shoulder strap settings. If you run on the smaller side, both bags may work great for you.

    Hopefully that answered some questions Crossada. Sorry for the book buddy but you did ask a loaded question! Let me know if you guys have any more questions
    Last edited by Bender; 01-15-2019 at 09:33 AM.
    Eric Bender
    -eric@kifaru.net

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Edmond, OK
    Posts
    453

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    Appreciate the info behind the design Eric. Super interesting to hear the thought process.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    Truly appreciate the response Eric!

    Once I decide between ranger green and wolf gray I'll be placing my order. I like many things about this bag over the xray. I like that it doesn't have the big lumbar pad for one which wasn't ideal for edc. Plus the layout is just more useful I think but the xray is my favorite bag of all time so it will be interesting to compare.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    Jayson here and would an E&E fit on the back? Also, any chance they can have a velcro patch sewn on it? I like to have my kit labeled.

    Please respond.


    jaYson

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Arvada CO
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    The molle field on the back will be a little narrow for the E&E to fit on there using slotted buckles and the E&E compression but it would be doable. While our packs are assembled to order, they are made in batches so custom stuff like velcro for patches isn't a possibility right now.
    Eric Bender
    -eric@kifaru.net

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    I am a stand hunter. When it's cold I carry a lot of clothes into the stand and put them on once there. I have been using an Urban Zippy and it has been adequate overall for this task but sometimes I would like a little bigger pack. The issue I see being able to use this new pack for this scenario is the hanging loop. Putting it on the lid makes it so you can't hang the pack on a peg and still have access.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Arvada CO
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    True, the handle on the lid does limit how you can hang the bag. There are two sets of tabs for compression straps on the upper sides. One set goes across the panel and keeps it from opening while the other set secures the bag to the tree or stand.
    Eric Bender
    -eric@kifaru.net

  9. #29

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Bender View Post
    Crossada,

    This bag is a combination of 3 different patterns that didn't go together well by themselves so I made a Frankenstein out of the parts. It has some features that people have phoned in saying they wish the Antero had like more organization, better laptop access, a little bigger with more usable (and removable) compression. I still have a few bags to finish up that would round out our urban line, one of them closer to the Antero in size.
    Anymore info on this? Any chance of a clam shell in the 15L range? Honestly, the V1 15L Bullet has to be my absolute favorite EDC. Practical, light, the 2 pockets are amazing. Would love to see something like this come from Kifaru.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: New Bag - Shape Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Bender View Post
    LMT66- No plans right now to make a version with stay channels only. The Hourglass framesheet will be going in a couple of future packs. Here is a pic of the framesheet with a 40mm practice round for scale.
    Attachment 27111

    Can it be ordered with aluminum stays instead of composites? I dont see the option.

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