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Thread: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    NC northwest part in Blue Ridge mountains
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    188

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    IMHO Sgathak is right Jerry. I believe you owe this board an apologie. If you will be nice you can sell alot more gear. Ask Patrick... 2nd wind

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Truckee Ka.
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    172

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    I guess maybe I also detect a little 'tude from Jerry. In his defense, he certainly seems to know his subject and believe his products are the best going. I have no problem with that...(Heck I think my Guacamole is the best thing this side of Mars)

    But the question is....can a lamilite bag match (or nearly) a down bag in weight. My target is a 20* bag in a medium mummy cut, to fit 6' and @ 2lb.6oz. (max) My target models are the WM "Badger" and the BA "Zirkel". Both of those fit my target. FWIW BA also has a 20* PG model @ 2lb. 13oz.

    In looking at Jerry's website, I see his UL model is 20* @ 3lb.8oz. I'm not sure how he can hit the weights of those down models, but if he can...I'm buying.

    I'll keep ya'll posted.

    JF

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Near Canon City, CO
    Posts
    6,467

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    I found this Integral Designs bag on ID's website. I'm not familiar with their bags, but this one looks pretty good too. Does anyone out there have one of these?

    Renaissance 23 F / -5 C 2.75 lbs. / 1.2 kg 10" by 10" regular - 78" (198 cm)
    up to 5'11" Hip
    reg - 56" (143 cm)
    long - 60" (152 cm)
    "Me got no house; me all time moving; light fire, make tent, sleep; all time go hunt, how have house?"

    --Dersu Uzala
    Sihote'-Alin Range, Ussuria, 1902



    www.tenkaratracks.com
    http://fishrigs.com/

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    grand junction, co
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    kutemaymtnboy,

    If you go into the archives of my newsletters you will find the explanation of how primaloft came into existance, at the expense of US taxpayers, $700,000.00. In short it is a chopped staple fiberfill which has been in existance since 1960 and giving it a fancy name doesn't make it a good product. Your Canadian company integral designs was my first licensee but since they were purchased by adventure tech they changed to primaloft since adventure tech want me to give him $15,000.00 which is what the primaloft people did. Trust me it is garbage just like the british companies product.

    Sgathak,

    I may have been a little quick but many people who reference my suppling the military from the backpacking set think that once a human joins the service they change to something else. So I am on occasion touchy. Hell you could have been special forces for all I know, I doubt it since if you were you would still be using the Wiggy bags issued you. (JUST KIDDING)
    I am very suspect that the bags from other companies perform as they state based on the enormous number of calls I have received over the years from people tell ing me this brand or that brand didn't perfom as stated. Now keep in mind what I have said, if I make a Lamilite bag for a specific temperature the "same dimentions" as another company the weight will be very close, almost equal. The reference to my Ultra Light @ 3.8 pounds is a 80 inch long x 34 inch wide bag and the long and wide is 90 x 34 and it is 4 1/4 pounds. Ask F.F or WM to make a down bag equal in size and temperture rating to mine
    and see what theirs weights. Adding lenght adds baffels which need to be filled and adding width means that each existing baffel needs more down. Hence an increase in total weight, probably equal to mine. Now I understand that everybody wants the lightest bag for a given temperature even hunters, so I have tried to do the best for all. However, I have also accomodated thousands in total over the years with special bags, and in all cases when the bags are cut to an other companies size the weight is similar.

    JF

    Call me with thye exact size you want and I'll tell you how close I can come.

    have a good rest of Sunday.
    wiggy

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    168

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    "pinepig5,
    Get a hold of a squre yard of the most promonent of the Pertex brand of fabric used by the companies who use there materials and weigh it. Pertex is a company name and brand name for a whole line of fabrics. Anyway what you will find is that almost all of the fabics the sell to sleeping bag companies is 1.5 ounces at minimum and heavier, most being heavier. So much for saving as much weight as you thought.
    wiggy"

    Well when I posted that I was holding in my hand a sleeping bag that used 0.8 ounce weight fabric, so I don't know what you are getting at. If you're not willing to use it that's fine, you are a free man, but I was pointing out that it exists.

    I realize pertex is a brand, and didn't get specific since there are many varieties, the most common of which I have seen used in sleeping bags is....Pertex Quantum at 0.9 ounces. This is not 1.5 ounces, this is 0.9 ounces.

    Here is info on it from the feathered friends site:


    "In our quest to push the envelope of textile technology further, combined with our solution driven approach to product development, we have launched Pertex Quantum®.

    Pertex Quantum® is one of the lightest weight fabrics we offer. It is also the newest of our fabric selection, ideal for situations where high water resistance isn't as important as breath ability or weight savings. For greater water resistance or durability, we suggest Epic by Nextec.

    Pertex Quantum® has been engineered to meet the specific requirements of manufacturers of lightweight, insulated, equipment and apparel. Using the finest yarns available to us with the maximum thread count, we have created the lightest Pertex® ever at 30g/m2 (0.9oz/yd2)."

    Here is the pertex award from your favorite people at backpacker:

    http://www.pertex.com/newsstory.asp?id=8

    Here is product info on Pertex Quantum from pertex.com

    http://www.pertex.com/quantum.htm

    Epic from Nextec would be a good solution for your market, but is a tad heavier- not sure how much. It is used in the new military softshell clothing with rave reviews.

    So it's out there, and would help you match the weight of competitor bags, which is a large component of why this thread exists. You may be unwilling to trust it as far as durability, but that's a different issue.

    Peace,

    Pinepig

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    grand junction, co
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    pinepig5

    I looked the the Pertex site. The 30 denier material that they produce is in my opinion unaccetable for use a sleeping bag lining or shell material.
    It doesn't have enough strength, is very tightly woven so its vapor permeability is compromised and it will not retain the heat that it receives from the bag occupant for very long.

    The material I use; 70 denier single ply taffeta is far stronger, is not as tightly woven so its vapor permeability is exceptional and it has proven itself to heat up more quickly and retain that heat far longer than any other material used for the shell and lining of sleeping bags.

    I should like to point something out to you; for all the years I have been involved in the sleeping bag industry I have seen companies change insulations, shell and lining materials and zippers for no particular reason other than the new company giving out more advertising dollars than the old company.

    I for one have never used any supplier to contribute to my advertising, and as you probably can surmise I don't care what some other sleeping bag marketing company does, (I am the only manufacturer left in the country, I don't give much thought to WM,FF, NUNATAK, as I produce more in a week than they produce combined in a year) all the other brands are made in Chinese factories owned by Chinese people or the government.

    I have not changed my insulation, fabrics or zipper since inception because they work.

    wiggy

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Truckee Ka.
    Posts
    172

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    Y'all........

    I had an extensive conversation with Wiggy yesterday and ordered a bag. It will be based upon his UL model but with a slightly different shape and 1/2 thickness insulation on the bottom. I agree with PP that the use of a fabric that is in the ~~ 1.0 oz/yd range could get these synthetic bags into the true UL range. OTH I understand the reluctance of a manufacturer to go too far outside his proven formula due to material inventory, production expedients etc.

    So.......knowing my preference for absolute minimalist stuff, some might wonder...why did I do it???

    First, I will be retaining a minimalist down bag for shorter trips in warm friendly weather. (Down to say 30* or so)

    I do believe that synthetics offer a margin of safety for a soloist on a longer trip with weather in the offing. Note that I did not say this is a necessity, simply a margin of safety like the back up flashlight, second stash of fire starter, and six extra cartridges.

    Third, Jerry says he can hit 2lb. 8oz for the 20* bag in the shape I want. Given that BA has a 20* PG bag @ 2 lb. 11 oz, I think he can do it. (he'll be using less fabric). In any case, he has confidently offered the right of refusal if he misses the target weight. This compares well with the two leading down candidates from WM and BA. (They are ~~ 2 lb 4oz) I am willing to accept the 4 to maybe even 6 oz. increase in weight.

    If it goes over that.....different story. In the unlikely event that I do choose to refuse the finished product, I will offer to compensate him for his efforts as I don't want to be unfair (given that this is experiment). For me this is not as much about what it costs, as it is to get exactly the right thing.

    If Jerry were to use the UL fabrics of some sort, he could get his creations into true UL territory. Eventually, he might have to consider it in order to tap into the growing UL trend. Nevertheless, I'm willing to make the compromise (as long as he hits the spec'd weight) as I do think that his insulation material has some benefits that others lack.

    We shall see in 2 weeks or so.

    JF

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    168

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    Cool. I'll check your results.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    NY
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    5,006

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    JF- It's awfully hard to beat that kind of service now isn't it?? [img]/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] I'll be interested to hear about your results as well...
    “We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home, in towns and cities.” -Nessmuk

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Golden, Co. USA
    Posts
    4,052

    Default Re: The Kifaru type Wiggy's Sleeping Bag

    One of the wonders of insulations like Lamilite is that it is very stable. It can have holes and tears all over it's "shell" and still stay put, and perform. Therefore ANY shell that holds it in basic configuration ought to do--if your objective is lightest-possible. The Lamilite will still do it's thing. Seems to me "bullet-proof" still applies too. Unless you get all freaked out by appearances. Not me. I too want the absolute lightest Lamilight bag Jerry can concoct. That includes a "lesser" zipper (I'll be careful). I'm watching closely.

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