Trayvon Martin

[Smokepole]

You know, the question that I'm interested in, that no one is asking, is this--is Zimmerman just an overzealous "neighborhood watch captain" law-enforcement wannabe who likes to roust people? You all know the type.

There's apparently a record of him phoning in dozens of 911 calls. Was he an equal opportunity 911 caller? Did he call in suspicious white people in proportion to the local demography, or was he tending to only call when he saw black people? Were his calls on the money, as far as reporting "suspicious activities," or did he call in every time someone he didn't know walked down the street, white, black, yellow, or brown?

If it's the latter and he tended to roust everyone he encountered, then it's not racial, but he still may be partially to blame by being overzealous. If, as was reported he actually prevented some break-ins and was pretty much on the money with his 911 calls, then that puts it in a different light. But no one is asking that question. I suspect if he was the type to roust everyone walking down the street then it was well-known to the cops and the neighborhood watch committee, and neither is anxious to have that come to light.

[JAK]

I think it was a little of both. Clearly he shoud have been more careful not to mistake residents like Trafton Martin, from non-residents. There was a significant portion of blacks in the gated community. There is also the question of whether this apparent lack of concern for mistaking young black residents for criminals was in some way encouraged by others, such as the local police, or the property owners association, or perhaps the developer or other interested parties. What I am driving at is the police and the state may have had some motive in their failure to arrest Zimmerman, other than their concern for the rights of Zimmerman.

The Federal government is only doing a parallel investigating Zimmerman, to see if there were racial issues. They are not investigating the actions of the Sanford Police Department, or the State Prosecutors. So the State of Florida is left to investgate, and cover up, its own actions. The newly appointed State Attorney, Angela Corey, is no longer releasing any information to the press. It seems to me she has been brought in by the governor as a wet blanket. It seems pretty clear that this is politically motivated, with race being an inherent part of the politics, along with voter suppression and so forth.

Its a classic conflict between formal justice and fundamental justice. This is going to get ugly.

[Ralph]

I am unaware that a burgler is required to be a non-resident.

Also, Jak (and others calling for arrest) are you saying the police should slap the cuffs on willy-nilly? An arrest is a formal, legal procedure of which records are kept. Do you really want to answer the question, "Have you ever been arrested?" with a "Yes" and then have to explain the circumstances?

Remember Richard Jewell? The security guard who hit every checkmark on the profile of a bomber but who, in fact, was completely innocent? Despite apologies all around his life was changed forever, and not for the better.

If you should ever have to defend yourself, by any means, do you really think you should be arrested out of hand, to sort out the facts of the case later? Unless you say, "Sure, I should be arrested and charged with assault (if non-fatal result) or murder (if fatal result) just in case a question should arise about the circumstances" I suggest you not be so eager to slap the cuffs on others. I assume you are a gun-owner. What would be result of an arrest in regards to your guns, even if you are released on bail?

Most cop-shops are aware of the complications arising from an arrest, and are aware of the Jewell case so they aren't so eager to plunge in without determining the facts and circumstances.

I was called for jury duty in a murder case (a big deal in this quiet little rural county) that was clearly either an accidental discharge or legitimate self-defense (and was so determined by the jury after about 15 minutes of deliberation). I wasn't seated (no one with a CCW license was) but I followed the case. The trail took about 4 days, there were about 100 folks called to jury duty (and paid for the day) and as near as I can see, the charge was brought by the DA solely because it would get lots of press coverage. DAs are elected here, and this guy was thrown out of office in the next election. I guess even the dumb hicks in the county realized that the primary reason for prosecutorial discretion is to keep crap cases from wasting a lot of time and money and that murder case was the poster child of crap cases.

I suppose my point is be aware of the consequences before shooting your mouth off about who should do what and to whom. With the state and the feds involved, this case will end up costing $millions, no matter the outcome. The taxpayer shouldn't pay for that, the folks yelling about arrests and such should be individually billed.

[Bedlam]

I think it is worth pointing out what the actual roles of the police and courts actually are: Police are to enforce the laws on the books. If any law appears to be broken, they are to arrest (ie: bring into custody) the person. It is not the police department's job to interpret the law. The court's (judge and prosecution) job is to figure out if indeed a law was broken by investigating the case, to what extent, and to formally prosecute the accused in a court of law.

The way that I see it, in this case the police did their job by bringing in Zimmerman and witnesses for questioning and statements. From what the public has been told, he was attacked and defended himself. Whether this is true or not needs to be investigated. It is now up to the DA and courts to figure out if there is any evidence of wrong doing by Zimmerman to press charges.

Ryan

[David in OR]

Don't the cops often not arrest initially and then go ahead with their investigation? That seems like a good way to go in shootings that don't seem obviously criminal. Justice proceeds without the inevitable consequences of an arrest that may not be necessary.

I dunno what happened in this case, re the internal workings of the local agency and whatever evidence they had to hand.

[GJZ]

This is not an attack on gun laws. If anything it is the opposite.
Zimmerman isn't the main concern here, the failure to arrest him is.

No, this shouldn't be about guns laws BUT obama and the democrats always take advantage of these type of situations.

They do it EVERY time.

What was their exact quote in the past?

"Let no tragedy go to waste."

This will play into the hands of the democrats and the CCW law.

BTW, The black panthers made direct threats to Zimmerman.

You don't see obama or AG holder saying anything about that???

Zimmerman wasn't arrested because the media is leaving something out of the story.

What if Zimmerman took a stroll through a crack neighborhood....what would have happened then?

Would the media make a big issue and distort the facts about the innocent "white" of "spanish" kid???

They report only one side of the story before they have all the facts.

They are very slanted when it comes to reporting the truth.

The media is a BIG problem in this country.

[disillusionedpatriot]

It's a red herring that racism is not involved because he is hispanic not white. <snip> This is a racial issue.
Doesn't matter what race Zimmerman might be. Wouldn't matter if he was black.
The issue is that the victim was black.

There are people who are saying that it's not a racial issue because hispanic isn't a race. My wife tells me the software she inputs with allows a choice of hispanic or non-hispanic and then allows a choice of White, Black, Pacific Islander, Asian, Native American, probably some others. You can be a Hispanic *plus* I guess any of the other choices.

Hispanics are the only two-boxers, everyone else mixed has to pick their predominate one and be listed as that. And it's interesting that the norm seems to be to check a box if there's any possibility, no matter how distant, that you can claim it. Even our President who has only a 50% claim either way figuratively checks the box, well past any need to do so.

So if technically this isn't a "racial" situation then it is a "checkbox" situation. It's a battle of checkboxes. Many of our government mandates, benefits and responses are matters of which checkboxes a person is able to check. The whole notion needs to be dropped, even from the Census.

[GJZ]

spike lee tweeted wrong address and forced an elderly couple to leave their home in fear for their life:
(Husband 72 and 70 year old Wife with a heart condition)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/spik...rge-zimmerman/

You don't hear obama or holder running their mouth about this????

[JAK]

I think I have been confusing someone being formally charged with someone being held for questioning. Shouldn't Zimmerman have been held longer, for questioning? It would be good to know what sort of evidence was taken, and what sort of evidence was not taken when the opportunity was available. Pictures. Blood samples. Has the media even asked what evidence was or wasn't taken? I agree that the media isn't doing a great job. Too much focus on Zimmerman, and Martin, and not enough basic information on what the process is, and not enough questions and answers regarding whether or not the process has been followed properly.

To my kn

[JAK]

To my knowledge the Feds are not investigating anyone other than Zimmerman, and they are doing that only with evidence provided by the state authorities, in a parallel investigation. I suppose this does at least mean that the Feds are aware of what evidence was taken, and what evidence wasn't taken, so there is some oversight even though they have no direct mandate. I'm saying the Feds are only involved in the possible racially motivated actions of Zimmerman, not the possible racially motivated actions or inactions of the state authorities.

Anyone know what evidence was taken, or wasn't taken that should have been?