Trayvon Martin

[Kmassaro]

We don't quite know how the altercation began. And even if Zimmerman made a mistake, not every mistake is a crime. Even following the guy, as a neighborhood watch fellow, isn't bad or wrong behavior. That's what I would expect from neighborhood watch, that you "watch" some one.

Alan Dershowitz thinks the charges won't survive a motion to dismiss, on the grounds that on its face, the charging documents do not show the mens rea, or state of mind, element necessary for 2nd degree murder.

This is a defensible case from everything I see.

[snakey2]

As I see it now unless Zimmerman gets hung out to dry there will be riots. The law may see him as not guilty but a big chunk of the public does and many of those are on the edge right now.

[JAK]

I think it is fair to say there is a justifiable culture of mistrust, both on the side of Zimmerman as a member of community dealing with a high crime rate, and Trafton Martin, growing up as a member of a minority group that is still dealing with harrassment and injustice, even by the police and justice system. A reasonable person can understand Zimmerman's frustration that may have led to recklessness, and Martin's actions such as putting his hood up when being followed, and not calling the police. Putting his hood up is not neccessarily done to avoid identification. I see it as more of an instinctive response when someone is trying to avoid confrontation. As for not calling the police when being followed, that hadn't occured to me, and it probably didn't occur to him either. Interesting point though.

It was good that so many members of the community called 911 when they did. Still not that clear how things transpired. I suspect that Trafton Martin's intentions were as his parents portrayed, with perhaps this exception. Trafton Martin might have been affected by being on the phone with his girlfriend, and perhaps also by having just watched sports, if that matters. He might have been a little fired up, and so his natural fight/flight response when threated might have leaned somewhat toward stand-your-ground rather than running home. Also, given that he had just been suspended from school, for the empty bag of pot, that might have affected him is some way also. He might have had his back up, especially if he perceived that the suspension wasn't fair. We are dealing with a teenager. Even if he wasn't spotless, we should not expect him to behave like a well trained professional. Even the police are not held to that standard.

Same with Zimmerman, but I think the onus was clearly on him in this case, because he is older and more experienced, and because he made the decision to get involved in neighbourhood watch, which means he should have taken time to prepare for these situtations, and even more because he chose to carry a firearm. This might be defensible under Florida law, or it might not be, but regardless, it was reckless, and even if that community was suffering from a rash of break ins, he ended up hunting down and shooting someone, a teenager, that he should have been out to protect.

Still, I don't think Zimmerman is the issue here. It is the underlying lack of trust within these communities and between these communities and the police and justice systems. It's a divided community, in a divided state, in a divided country.

What does it mean to be a patriot in a divided country? How do individuals come together to protect their individuals rights and freedoms, without arbitrarily conspiring with some at the expense of others? This is the essential paraodox.

I hope as much truth can come out as possible, not just with respect to Zimmerman, but also the property owners association, the neighbourhood watch organizations, the gated community property management company and any other interested parties, the police, the justice system, and the state. Also the various ethnic communities.

If we can't protect kids like Trayvon Martin, and we can't help well meaning individuals like Zimmerman do the right thing, what the heck are we doing? It is easy to lose sight of the big picture when we take sides instead of trying to come together. It's not like we are dealing with a gang-banger and a neo-nazi. This was friendly fire.

With friends like Zimmerman, how do we keep our kid's safe?

[robcollins]

Well said Jak, Snakey, and Kmassaro, I agree with all...

If I were prosecutor, given what little I know, I think that manslaughter would've been my choice, although after googling 2nd degree murder, this was one description that I came up with "killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life" while the description of manslaughter contained this language: "The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection." (both sets of language from http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com)

I think that it will be difficult to find an untainted jury, and the media circus may well lead to mistrials and ultimately, Mr. Zimmerman not being found guilty. Which will lead to more of a circus, riots, mayhem, which will further polarize folks there, and may get a few more people shot.

Sad situation all around.

[Kmassaro]

There is a bit of gamesmanship here. If the charges are 2nd degree murder, and there is no lesser included offense, then it's all or nothing. It may be better for Zimmerman to go to trial on 2nd degree murder rather than manslaughter, because the jury sometimes decides he should be guilty of something and convicts on manslaughter. It's high stakes poker, indeed, but I can think fo a few cases where we did that when I was doing criminal defense work, and it worked out very well.

[Ralph]

If there be riots they will be incited and instigated by those who get a living by doing so, spurred on and encourgaed by the lame stream media. A couple of facts that are unfortunate but true. Most blacks are killed by other blacks and much of the violent crime in this country has a black face. There are a ot of rambling excuses for this but few, if any, hold any water.

I served with black officers and enlisted troops for many years. They proved themselves capable and fine people. Most had/have families and virtually all of the members of those families have education, good jobs, and clean records. Nor do they participate in what passes for "black culture". They are not treated like street creeps because they neither look nor act like street creeps and they have proven worthy of honor and respect.

Many years ago there was an influx of Irish immigrants who quickly gained a reputation for being lazy, ignorant, drunken brawlers. Signs were common: "help wanted, no Irish need apply", "Irish and dogs keep out", etc. The police van was called the "paddy wagon" since it was generally full of Irish immigrants. This changed because their community no longer tolerated bad behavior. It changed not because there was some government program offering welfare payments or special consideration for education or job placement. It changed because their community forced a change and the general society soon realized this. There is a lesson in this.

This case has fallen into the clutches of the racial racketeers like Sharpton and the new Black Panthers, who, instead of trying to improve the lot of "their people" prefer to stir up turmoil and riots to their own advantage. Mr. Zimmerman walked into this.

[jhedine]

Good point Ralph.

[Pathfinder]

There is a reason for "stereo types"... Then there is the cry baby excuse, called "politically correct"... Either way, facts are facts & excuses are excuses.

[41magfan]

I wish that Gary Spence would come out of retirement for Zimmerman and show 'em what spin is all about ..... political correctness not included.

[Kmassaro]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...rew-c-mccarthy

McCarthy is a former federal prosecutor, who was the lead dog in the prosecution of the blind sheik, mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. So, when he speaks about prosecution, he knows his stuff.