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Thread: Trayvon Martin

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    I think he was just a kid, and people like al sharpton selfishly try to identify with hapless folks just to promote his own agenda.

    Cue this up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    When they say Zimmerman was a "Neighbourhood Watch Captain" what is that exactly?
    Was this guy self-appointed, or is there some committee that might be vicariously liable in some way?
    We don't have too many gated communities up here, so I don't know how they work.

    It seems all the more tragic that the young man shoot was one of the people Zimmerman was supposed to be protecting.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    I found this...

    http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tray...ganization.php

    So it would see he was just a self-appointed loner, and in hind-sight maybe a time bomb waiting to go off.
    Did this gated community not have some sort of property owner assocciation set up to real this guy in, or train him?
    Again, in retrospect, they should have.

    It would seem to me alot of communities might want to review how they oversee their neighbourhood watch programs.
    I mean the last thing any community wants is to be gunning down some of their own members.

    Why hasn't the media looked into how this gates community was structured, if it was?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    'Retreat' at Twin Lakes

    God couldn't quarantee us both free will and justice, so he also gave us irony.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    Personally, I wouldn't get too hung up on the neighborhood watch thing. Whatever Zimmerman's guilt or innocence (and, again personally, I have a bad feeling about it, but that counts for exactly nothing), this thing is going to be spun in eight million ways by eight million different interests. Gun law, self-defense law, race, neighborhood watch organizations, media bias... Whatever relationship Z. might have had with whatever neighborhood watch group it might have been, nobody would have looked ahead to this incident and said, "Yeah, sounds good."

    The politicking around a death like this makes me queasy no matter who's doing it. Let's just hope that justice is at least significantly served in the end.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    Good point, and well stated David. There are too many interests looking to use this case to fuel their agendas. Notice how quiet the media coverage is of (roughly estimated) 2 million instances annually where firearms are used in self defense?

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Good point, and well stated David. There are too many interests looking to use this case to fuel their agendas. Notice how quiet the media coverage is of (roughly estimated) 2 million instances annually where firearms are used in self defense?
    Unfortunately, this is true:
    "You do not start any crap, act aggressively, flip the bird, roll your eyes, talk junk, or even raise your voice. To anyone. Ever....
    From now on, when dealing with crazy / possibly violent people, you will lose every argument."

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    And, also, if you're going to follow and confront someone while you're armed and are on the phone to a 911 dispatcher, you definitely do not mutter "f#cking c##ns." Maybe that's not what he actually said on the audio clip I listened to. Maybe somebody doctored the clip. I don't know. I'm just saying, that's another thing you shouldn't do.

    I guess all I wanted to say, above, was that while there's always context for incidents like these, it just seems like people get on their soapboxes immediately and damn near reflexively. I'm just as prone to it as anyone.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    Good points all around. But let me just step off my own soap box for a minute in order to go out on a limb. While I agree that nobody in the police force or the developer or the home-owners association would have looked ahead and thought this would be a good outcome, did they fail in their responsibilities to mitigate such an outcome, versus other possible concerns such as politics, property values, whatever? This Zimmerman fellow, appears to me to be a fellow that, while not a racist, an emotionally insecure individual that should not be allowed to go about neighborhood watch activities while carrying a firearm. There are 'mall cops' that perhaps should be armed, and those that should not. While this guy may have been within his rights to be armed for his own protection, he should not have been permitted to go about neighborhood watch actitivities in the aggressive and over-zealous way that he did while armed. He was permitted to do that, by the police, and the home-owners association, and I think that should be looked into. I think some people are vicariously liable for this individuals actions and that might be what might be attempted to be covered up and swept under the rug. Hopefully, that is what is being looked into, among other things.

    I don't think this law in Florida needs to be changed neccessarily, as there are problems in Florida that need to be addressed, but I think it needs to be clarified, and when you combine neighbourhood watch activities with this law, people other the individuals directly involved need to be held accountable. I'm not saying he wasn't acting alone. I know he was acting alone. I'm just saying the police and neighbourhood watch groups were in a position to oversee this individual, and they should have been aware of this sort of possibility, and they made a serious error in judgement in wieghing that risk against possible benefits. He should have been better trained, better supervised, or stopped before something like this happened.

    I also don't buy the argument that he could not have been arrested and investigated because of the law as it is written. So there was a failure there as well, and I think that was to cover up the fact that this guy could have been and should have been stopped before this happened.

    But I'll also go out on a limb to say that, even with politics as it is in Florida, and the Federal Election going on, and all these crazy people with agendas, the State and Federal folks that are now involved will get to this sort of conclusion I have outlined, and this is what the people of Florida and the US want, regardless of race and political affiliations.

    Hopefully some good will come of this tragic event.

    p.s. The folks that have been breaking into houses are also partly responsible for this, as is the gangbang rap culture that teenagers of all colours and wealth seem to embrace. Even if they don't become criminals, they are playing a dangerous game, fueling a fire. People need to wake up. Not saying this Rayvon fellow was partly responsible because he was wearing a hoody, or because he ducked in out of the rain on his way home which made him look suspicious. I'm talking about other kids, white and black, that engage in criminal and near criminal behaviour in a country that has too many people on edge. People need to think more about how their behaviour impacts on crime and violence, even when it isn't criminal or violent. People need to think about building a better community, not just by force, but also by civil conduct and behaviour.

    Long way to go, but I think we can get there. I don't believe all this violence is a neccessary side effect of freedom.
    Everyone, left and right, seems to have lost track of where we want to get to, too focused on how to get there.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Trayvon Martin

    How to get there? I've got my own answer, and it has nothing to do with legislation, the judicial branch, executive branch, etc. I take my kids to church, and I make sure they know the very most basic thesis of the Bible as I know it (greatly simplified to weed out anyone else's imparted agenda): Love GOD, and don't be SELFISH.

    Pretty simple basic barometer. My 3 year old can't argue with it, and he's just learned to ask "why." Why can't I have a cookie? It's time for bed. Why..........

    The selfishness is the problem, regardless of which side of the aisle, your color, your religion, whatever. Political extremes, you're likely playing into someone else's selfish agenda.

    I have a lot of hope for my kids, I love to be around them, even their temper fits, I can manage, because I'm smarter than 3 year olds and 8 year olds, and I won't put up with selfishness, plain and simple. AND, I try not to be, and realize that it's impossible to not be, so hypocrisy isn't something I worry about, I'm as self motivated as anyone... (case in point, Kifaru, Firearm, bicycle, snowboard, camping equipment collection)

    I worry about what I can affect, the kids I know, are pretty good. Want advice, don't preach to your kids (and everyone else's) about sin, tell them you deplore selfishness, it's a better message, and really, isn't it the same thing? Works pretty well with atheists, hindus, muslims, etc. too. It feeds into the "Judge not," and "love your neighbor as yourself," AND, it allows you to CHOOSE, who you spend your efforts and charity on, because it is selfless....

    Rational rant complete...

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