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IDBWHNTER
03-21-2007, 09:43 AM
I recently purchased a 12 man and since I am a confirmed Kifaru junkie already own several stoves and hoped to use the medium one in it. I tried to order a pipe for the medium that would work in the 12 man but the office is not sure the medium stove will draw with the length of pipe needed for the 12 man. I plan to use the 12 during the summer for scouting and early season when heat is not a big need but weight is a consideration since I use goats and while my capacity has increased I still watch pounds closely. Does anyone know if the medium will draw in a 12 and what the weight differential would be between a medium/12 pipe vs large/12 pipe ?

Thanks

Shawn
03-21-2007, 10:50 AM
I thought the stove had better draft with a longer pipe??

I seem to remember Wood Walker and others stating that as of late.

Patrick
03-21-2007, 11:28 AM
Welcome to the Board, IDBWHNTER.

That was Amanda you talked to, and she had never had that question before...the Large Stove is always matched with the 12 man.

The answer is you'll be fine with the Medium Stove. Have a great time!

IDBWHNTER
03-21-2007, 11:51 AM
thanks for the quick response. Does anyone know if there is a significant weight difference between the medium/12 stovepipe config vs the large/12 stovepipe config ?

Patrick
03-21-2007, 12:49 PM
IDBWHNTER, we weighed them and the difference is 1 1/4 lbs. 3 3/4 vs. 5. Includes Cordura pouches.

If I may say, the Large will give that 12 man more seasonal flexibility , and more cooking surface for the larger groups it'll hold.

Woods Walker
03-21-2007, 03:28 PM
I would go with the large stove. I don't own a medium however the small stove had a very nice draft with a 96 inch pipe in a 6-man so don't think the longer pipe in a med is an issue. I like my large stove as it can take some very large chunks of wood. In fact down right big. This makes wood cutting so much faster. Also it can fit a butt load of cook pots. The large stove burns longer too. But think the Med with longer pipe should work.

Songdog
03-21-2007, 04:42 PM
Woods,

So you put a 96x3" pipe on the small stove and had no problems? I just received my 8 man and will be using a home grown stove but would pick up a 96x3" pipe for kicks if I thought it would draft well enough with the small stove.

Thanks!

Ken
03-21-2007, 04:47 PM
SD...I'll be trying my Small stove in my 8 man shortly. I'll let you know how it works.

Woods Walker
03-21-2007, 04:59 PM
Yup. The 96-inch pipe in the 6-man using small stove worked very very well. Just like the 84-inch pipe in the 4-man. I donít know what would happen beyond 96 inches. There must be a point that the performance does not increase but rather decreases. However you guys can test it using cheap 3-inch pipe from any hardware store. Comes in 3-foot sections. I would test it outside as often it is covered in Zinc. Bad things will happen to you if you breathe in zinc gas.

IDBWHNTER
03-21-2007, 06:23 PM
Patrick, thanks again for the quick reply. I am sure the large stove is in my future but I will try the 12 man with the medium and I will call an order the pipe; leaves a little more room for some additional "brown liquid" which is handy for medicinal purposes on the long scouting rambles in the Idaho wilderness during the summer. I try and limit the number of "old goats" I travel with so weight is an issue and trade offs are necessary.
It is great that you make products that are interchangable in so many ways.

Thanks everyone for the input.

Lovelight
03-21-2007, 08:08 PM
To use a smaller stove in the larger tents, is a special stove pipe necessary or can you just use the bigger stove pipe (assuming you have a larger stove as well) with the smaller stove pipe rings towards the bottom of the pipe and the larger ones towards the top? I suppose you could just drill an additional hole at the top of the pipe so the circumference is the same at the top and the bottom when used with the smaller stove but it seems like leaving the stove pipe bigger at the top would fit the stove jack better and help keep out the weather.

Woods Walker
03-21-2007, 08:18 PM
You can make a reducer. Say 5-inch to 3-inch. I made one for my large stove to allow the 3-inch pipe work with the 5-inch port. However it didn't work as the stove could not draft with the reduced pipe. I feel it would work better the other way around. 3-inch stove port to 5-inch pipe. It cost me about 10 bucks in pipe fittings at Ace hardware. I am not so certain of the value of doing this. Maybe someone with a small stove wants to run it inside a 8-man tipi but does not want to buy an extra pipe as they own both stoves. I would test any set up outside the tent first.

Lovelight
03-21-2007, 08:25 PM
The small stove in the 8 man is scenario that I'm thinking about. The large stove is going to be a thing of beauty when it is -10 during hunting season but I like the idea of using the small stove in the summer when camping with the family.

Maybe getting some medium size rings for holding together the center portion of the pipe would be a good idea.

Woods Walker
03-21-2007, 08:50 PM
Don't fully understand your thinking about the rings. Medium sized rings are 3.5 inches. Too big for the small stove. If you are getting a large stove and already own a small one why not buy an adapter from 3 to 5 inch. They have reducers that could be had at any hardware store. If you are looking to buy both stoves just get a longer pipe for the small one. I think Kifaru charges 10 buck a foot for extra pipe. I don't know what happens beyond 96 inches with the 3 inch pipe however.
The one I found looks like this but reduces from 5 to 3 inches.

http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=1260800

I guess it could be moved around the other way for 3 (small stove port) to 5 inches (large stove pipe). But this project would be worth while if someone owned both stoves already and wanted to put the small stove that had a shorter 3-inch pipe inside a larger tent and then use the longer pipe of the Large Kifaru stove. But this is all guess work as I have never done it. I can just say that using a 3-inch pipe on the large kifaru stove didn't work out very well. However the other way around say a 5-inch pipe on a small stove might work. Maybe one day I will test this out just to see as I have all the parts. If looking to get both stoves for the same shelter I would just buy two stoves pipe and all.

If I owned an 8-man I would just use the large Kifaru stove and build a smaller fire inside the thing unless I was looking to save a few lbs and reduce the pack size.

Lovelight
03-21-2007, 10:01 PM
I will clarify the scenario. I have the Supertarp/annex with the small stove. I'm getting the 8 man with the large stove. Instead of getting an adapter, I would just use the large stove pipe with the small stove but use the small rings on the large pipe (or drill an additional hole to fit the small stove collar w/bolt and wing nut)at the bottom. The medium rings are for the center of the pipe where it is tapering from the 3 inch stove collar to the 5 inch stove exhaust. Without them, I suspect there would be a bunch of stove pipe that wants to unroll in the center of the pipe.

Using the large stove with a smaller fire was something I considered but if I wasn't sure I could generate enough heat to cook without chasing me out of the tent. My theory was a smaller, more concentrated fire in the small stove would be more usable for cooking without heating up the tent too much. Either way, trial and error will be my teacher. It may well turn out that just using the large stove will be the best approach even in summer.

03-22-2007, 03:04 AM
I have a paratipi with small stove and an 8 man. I use the small stove in the 8 man with a stove pipe that Kifaru made for me. I haven't gone below 30 degrees, but it can get so hot in there it will run you out. Seems to draw well.

Patrick
03-22-2007, 03:22 AM
Lovelight, some discussion:

---As a general rule, if a stovepipe is going to be "tapered" it should taper upwardly from wider to narrower for good "acceleration" of exhaust.

---The most straightforward method in your scenario is to use our three inch rings on your four inch pipe..."over rolling" the pipe a bit to get it down to three inches. And drilling or punching a secondary bolt/wingnut location at the top. HOWEVER, burning the pipe in this narrower configuration could very well result in it taking a "set" at the narrower diameter. Which could mean it won't come "back" to full diameter when in use on the large stove. Of course it won't have any choice at the bottom (because you'll be inserting it over your large stove's 4" collar), or at the top (because you'll be pulling it open and affixing it with your bolt/wingnut at the 4" diameter), but it may be "loose" in the middle. I'm pretty sure it'll not leak smoke, but I can't be certain. I'm sure I've done what we're talking about here long ago whilst developing our stoves, I just can't seem to remember the details of the outcome. Anyway, you're welcome to try it. Give us a report. We'll fix you back up with a replacement 4" pipe if necessary. It'll be worth it to re-learn what happens in this scenario. And it will probably work. So long as the pipe draws without leaking smoke the "cosmetics" of appearance are irrelevant. Even if the 4" rings fall down in the middle of the pipe, and it still works, then you're in business. Capish?

Woods Walker
03-22-2007, 05:25 AM
Ok I understand.

Why not just go with a 4-inch to 3-inch Imperial Furnace Pipe Reducer. This way you can use the 4-inch pipe as is on the small stove with 3-inch port. No fooling around with anything. I will hunt down my reducer parts today and see if it fits. The thing is about 4-5 ozs. Oh I forgot that my large stove has a 4-inch pipe. I don't know why I keep thinking it a 5-inch. Here is the part I think you need.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1274099&cp=1260800&parentPage=family

Patrick
03-22-2007, 06:22 AM
If you're willing to carry a few more ounces, and do so "in the round", Woods Walker's suggestion should work fine.

Patrick
03-22-2007, 06:30 AM
Let me refine that to say you'll want to put about four pop rivets--barrel side out--around the four inch section of that converter to keep your Kifaru collar from slipping down too far over it. Such that you can insert/remove the screens, as they then won't be sitting against the reducer rim.

Lovelight
03-22-2007, 11:53 AM
Thanks guys. It's just fun thinking about the possibilities and having great gear to play with. I'll report back when I get my chance to experiment.

Woods Walker
03-22-2007, 02:46 PM
Patrick.

If I remember correctly the reducer has a rounded ring that flares out at the ends of the 4-inch section and the 3-inch section. It is made so that pipe can't slip down on both ends. Also if the thing did slip the collar can be placed inside the 4-inch section as it does within the stove port normally as the collar has rivets to keep from sliding inside too far. I am betting that the 3-inch port expended to a 4-inch pipe would work overall better than the 3-inch pipe on a small stove. But this is relative as the 3-inch pipe works perfectly in relation to the small stove's shape and firebox size. I am betting that the shape and size of the firebox in relation to the stovepipe was no mistake on Kifaruís part. Also if you look at the reducer it is angled to allow easy airflow. I got one originally to adapt a 3-inch pipe to the large Kifaru stove. It failed because the total volume of the stovepipe was not great enough for the volume of the firebox but we are talking about doing the Opposite. I was looking for a way to put the large stove inside the 4-man tipi without cutting the tent's stove port larger. OCD would not allow me to do that. Anyways after testing out the large stove I found it was just too much stove for the small 4-man tipi. So looks like I will be needing a bigger tent. Got any ideas? I will be testing all of this out ASAP being that I have all of the parts and both large and small Kifaru stoves.

Ken
03-22-2007, 05:00 PM
Lovelight-I planned on doing the same thing you describe.

Woods Walker
03-22-2007, 07:49 PM
Ken.

Go with the reducer.