Archery

[falcon]

http://www.texasarchery.org/videos/Smooth_executions_korean.wmv

Here is a short video on follow throughs. Olympic archers anchor alot lower because of the distance(90 meters) they shoot. It does show the relaxed, back of the hand and the pull through towards the shoulder. Also the torque free grip.

I just like watching arrows fly that far and... bam! right in the bull.

Once it gets loaded it will repeat over and over.
Glynn

[Ken]

Awesome clip...and I thought I was doing good getting MOST arrows to just hit the target at 45-50 today...

It's the farthest I've ever shot w/ the 'curve and I'd dare say I learned more in 2 hours today about my 'form' than ever.

Thanks Glynn.

[falcon]

Ken, shooting at distance is great fun as well as very informative. It has become an intregal part of my practice routine.

A bow is kinda like a muzzle loader, in that you must follow through after the release(trigger pull). The projectile will be affected by movement untill it clears the weapon.

Practice at 50 will make those 15 yard hunting shots a walk in the park. Still gotta practice at 10 though!

Glad to hear you got outside, are you guys getting warm weather up there? Been too hot here to go rabbit hunting!
Glynn

[Ken]

yeah it's warm up here...got a couple of inches of rain yesterday. Today was real nice though...I played hookie and putzed around the house, eventually hauling the bow and target outside for some shooting. Started out at 20, then to 30...next thing you know I was back there lobbing them deep...wound up picking a few of em out of the mud, but not too many considering.

I had a 15 yard slight downhill shot through pine tree limbs that threw me for a loop though. I started out 6-8" left for 3 arrows..then 6-8" right for the next four...??? Started to think the damn bull had a forcefield around it.

When it was all said and done I was somewhat proud of myself though...I'm starting to make some good shots. After two months of...10 yards 10 yards 10 yards 10 yards in the basement....I was pretty leary of my accuracy and wondered if I really would be able to get it together by Oct.

Today made me feel like I've got a good chance at it, and even if I wind up not being 100% by then, I'll have had alot of fun trying.

Can't ask for more than that.

How have you been doing?

[John Havard]

One of our friends (and customers) is John Magera, who was a member of the 2004 USA Olympic archery team. I've had the pleasure of watching him shoot his target recurve at 90 meters and it's awesome to see someone shoot that accurately. He was honestly disappointed if he didn't hit an area of a dinner plate with six out of six arrows! And this was one yeare BEFORE he got serious and qualified for the team. Shooting a stickbow at long range like that has to qualify as one of the ultimate hand-eye coordination sports of all time. Cool, cool, cool! John

[falcon]

http://www.tradgang.com/videos/rod.wmv

Here is a video of the 2004 IBO champ. It shows the the straight line from elbow to arrow tip and the use of the back muscles. Relaxed hand and follow thru.

I cant my bow when I shoot, but it works the same.

Wish I had a video of Magera shooting too.
Glynn

[Ken]

I see an ACS!

[O.L. Adcock]

Yes Ken, Rod doesn't have any scruples! /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif He won the TH class with a 3 piece ACS. The fellow is a shooting machine besides making the best strings and bow cases!......O.L.

[Rod Jenkins]

O.L.....no scruples ?? some of the recurve guys, say I have no mother /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[O.L. Adcock]

HeHeHe! /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ...O.L.

[falcon]

Have you guys been shooting? I know this time of year can be tough. Bad weather, snow, short days, not to mention there being any seasons coming up too soon. I'm going hog hunting in about a week and a half, so I have been stretching the string some. Going to run the dogs more too. Just finished a side job that has kept me busy, so more free time to play.

Still a good time to get the kinks worked out on close range form work and tweak the bow/arrow set-up.

Smokepole, did you mess with your nock point? After I talked to you, I was shooting some arrows bareshaft that were flying a little tail high off of my bow. I took my own advice to no avail, I went up and down that string and wound up right back where I started.

Last year I had an arrow that did kinda the same thing, only a little sideways. I asked O.L. about it on another forum and he told me that some set-ups just wont fly perfect without feathers. As long as the bareshaft arrow is striking the target with the feathered shafts then it could be as good as it will get.
Glynn

[Smokepole]

falcon, as a matter of fact, I shot some this weekend,and messed around with the nock point. Moved it down to 1/2 inch (had been at 3/4) and noticed about half the arrows were nock-down in the target at 12 yards. So I guess I'll move it back up to 5/8 or 3/4.

[Sawtooth]

falcon,

I've been shooting several times a week all winter. Like you say, work out the kinks close up. During the week I shoot at home from 10-15 yards with home made paper plate targets and some store bought bullseyes. On the weekends I stump shoot while hiking. Yesterday was very windy here, but I still managed to shoot for about an hour and shot pretty well in spite of it. I'm thinking about getting a 3D turkey (are you listening, Smokepole???) to shoot at home.

[Hoogster]

SawTooth,
Good to see that your keeping your skills up. Lots of turkey over there. I haven't hunted them for about 12 years. My only turkey harvest was down by Spanish Peaks. I might fling some woods at those darn buggers this spring.

[Sawtooth]

It will be my first time hunting Merriams with a trad bow. A new experience for sure!

[Hoogster]

ST-Good luck! My first turkey was with an old round wheel, which I still hunt with some. But really for me, traditional is much more fun and fulfilling. It just seems that the older I get there is much more plearsure in things like mastering the recurve/longbow. Telemark skiing vs. downhill, etc..

[Sawtooth]

I know what you mean. I hunted eastern turkeys for a number of years in northern Missouri with my compound.

[Smokepole]

Sawtooth, yes, I'm listening. Problem is, I'm just getting good with my 3-D broad side of a barn target. I can hit it most of the time, anyway.

But here's a serious question for you experienced bow shooters. When I shoot, I go out in the backyard where I have a 12 yard "range." I'll shoot twelve arrows, go back in the house, do some chores, and come back 15 or 30 minutes later, shoot twelve more, etc.

My accuracy is usually a little off for the first few arrows, then it improves as I remind myself of all the little things and get my form right. Remember, I'm new at this. After 12 to 15 or so arrows, I settle down but I see a pattern as far as accuracy.

I'll shoot six arrows in quick succession. The first three or so will be fairly accurate, and then the accuracy of the last two or three will fall off. I can't detect anything that I'm doing differently, but I assume it's because of fatigue that the accuracy falls off.

Any of you guys experience the same thing, early in your shooting careers?

[Ken]

How long have you been shooting?...a month or so?

I had (have) a problem with over thinking my shots...the more I relax and let my body do it's thing the better my shot gets. I tend to take some time each session working on release, solid bow hand after the shot, anchor etc...not worrying about accuracy. Then I'll just shoot for a while and have some fun. 50 yards, 20 yards, uphill downhill, through tree limbs etc.

As long as I having fun, I feel my body is learning....and sometimes hitting the shed is just plain funny! /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[falcon]

I know it sure helps when you shoot with one to four guys who are looking to tell you why your shooting sucks.

I put those videos on here so you would have an idea of what a good stance, draw, release, follow thru looks like, (although I cant my bow). Going through the motions so you know what it feels like to do it right is important. Instinctive shooting still demands good form. Bob Munden didn't just start yanking a pistol out and hitting stuff quick without having perfect form work first.

Shooting by yourself is harder in that you can't see yourself raising your head to peek or dropping your bow arm too quick, so unless you videotape or know what those things do to your shot, you just think your not doing well.

I think with instinctive shooting that keeping a high level of focus/concentration is easier when shooting at one target(like stump shooting) instead of multiple shots at a single target. Make sense? That's why when you're shooting and working on form, accuracy takes a backseat to perfect repetition. The bullseyes will come.

Some guys shoot one arrow and go pull it, to increase focus. I've heard of shooting one arrow in the morning and living with the result all day too, like a hunting shot.

Smokepole, I think a dozen arrows with intensity is much better than a hundred just flung mindlessly.

Sawtooth, you are hardcore man. I know alot of trad shooters who don't shoot that much.

I'm gonna do turkeys with the bow this year too, try anyway.
Glynn

[Sawtooth]

Smoke,

I'm by no means experienced at trad archery yet, but here's how I practice at home.

I shoot ONE arrow into my pie plate target from varying distances between 10 and 15 yards. The pie plate is 8" with a 1" black dot in the center. I shoot one arrow, walk up and pull the arrow out (while mentally reviewing the shot I just took), walk back (while mentally rehearsing the next shot), nock the arrow, burn a hole in the black dot with my eyes, draw and release. Repeat (again and again...) I found that my accurancy didn't fall off so fast as it did when I was shooting groups of arrows. I also gives me plenty of time to mentally rehearse and evaluate shots.

[Sawtooth]

For you, Smokepole... /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif


http://www.hunt101.com/img/374447.jpg
Merriams Target

http://www.hunt101.com/img/374450.jpg
Broad Side of the Barn Target

[Smokepole]

Dang Sawtooth, those are nice pictures and all, but something's wrong, on my screen they look the same size so the barn will be just as hard to hit as the turkey, what's up with that? Have you been taking lessons from Anthracitic?

Ken, to answer your question, I've been shooting since Christmas. I still get sore, mostly the muscles below the string arm shoulder, deltoid, I believe. I think I'll try Sawtooth's one arrow-at-a-time method.

[Ken]

Sawtooth- LOL...

Smoke- You could be fatigued...a month and a half isn't really all that long to build strength. I can still feel the effects of Sundays shooting and I'm 3 months into the trad. It sounds like your sore in the right place though... /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[Ken]

Smoke- The single arrow method will save you from this kinda frustration. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8346/rh58hz.jpg

[razorsharp]

Ken,

You just need to learn to lie a little about what you are aiming at. You're obviously a novice /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

[Ken]

...lol...are you tellin' me I'm a little too intstinctive??

[Smokepole]

That's about what my targets look like, what's with the extra long arrow?

[Ken]

They are a semi-custom offering of mine....real limited quantities though as production is pretty slow...only made two of them last month. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

[razorsharp]

Ken,
I have a laser that mounts to my riser with a remote trigger that slides under a finger of my bow hand. The idea is to see consistency from shot to shot on where you are aiming, not necessarily where the arrow will go because that can be affected by release and other factors.
But if you want to know if YOU are positioned correctly then I think this is a good way to check. So you would draw an arrow at the target and instead of releasing you fire the laser which will illuminate on the target. You mark that spot and repeat the process and compare laser marks to see how far YOU wandered from shot to shot.
With the laser on you can also see how much vibration you are causing and you can use the laser to focus on settling down before the shot. It will also make you think about whether your shot to shot variation is caused by twisting of the bow.

Its a great way to "shoot" indoors and develop good habits.

[Sawtooth]

Smoke,

I just wanted you to get a real good look at how big the turkeys are down here. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

And if you can hit THAT barn, then you can hit the turkeys. Ha, ha.

Is anybody else getting sore on the BOW side (for me it's the left side, I draw with my right), i.e., pectoral muscle, deltoid??? On the front side about halfway between my sternum and my armpit.

[Ken]

Razor- That's pretty cool. I'd bet there are some interesting results with one of those setups...

Sawtooth...you should hunt turkeys with your Marlin if that's the case...

I've yet to be sore in that area. I'll get sore on the back of that shoulder blade once and a while, nothing chest-side with that arm.

[Ken]

In keeping with the discussion about form...


http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=41;t=000001;p=1

[falcon]

Do you guys do any kind of specialized exercises to strengthen bow shooting muscles?

Of course shooting the bow is a good way to accomplish this and I will come back to that, but some simple gym equipment can make drawing and shooting easier.

Two years ago I ripped my bicep loose from my forearm. While recovering, I lost alot of strength. I couldn't stand not being able to shoot my bow and was highly motivated to resume.

Months before, after breaking a bow limb, I had a new set made that were 8# heavier than the old, and was just getting to where I was comfortable with them. Now I had to climb back a little farther.

I used all the old standby workouts. Curls, triceps, benches, and military presses. I also added bent over rows, and laying on the bench lat rows. Isolating the back muscles.

I got a rubber band type chest expander too. I would start with my arms straight out in front of me, chest high and simply open my arms to the sides, focusing on squeezing those shoulder blades together. Starting with my hands at waist level made a huge difference. Also simulate drawing a bow with both right and left arms by holding it out in front of you with a locked arm and pulling the other handle to behind your head. Again, always concentrating on the back muscles.

That helped alot. I have always liked the idea of being able to draw my bow very, very slowly. Something that I could use in a hunting situation.

Drawing your bow as slow as you can and coming to full draw and hitting your anchor, will tell you a bunch about what muscles you're using. Holding your bow at full draw with good back tension will definitely give you good bow shooting control.

When you can draw your bow slowly(15-20 sec.) and then hold it at full draw for 30 more seconds, before releasing the arrow on target, you are well on the way to mastering the physical side of the shot. You can take this as far as you want, and you can do it with only your bow and arrows for equipment.

Sessions where this is practiced will be short, but rewarding. It doesn't take as long as you might think to make big improvements.

Shooting bows is alot of fun, but it is also a skill to be honed like some of the other survival and woods skills we use. I like to be as serious about archery accuracy as I was about firearm accuracy, of course.
Glynn

[sdyotehunter]

Falcon,
The rubber band exercises are great ones. I do some of the same. Another really good body weight exercise is the pull-up. Pesonally I believe compound exercises that build multiple muscle groups as they work together are the best. Your bent rows are a perfect example.

[falcon]

Well, easy come, easy go. Since it was such a beautiful day, I was out cleaning out the archery room, among other things. Thought I would go through my routine for todays shoot session.

Couldn't pull it off, but I still have a little base left. Had to speed my draw up to 10 seconds and then could only hold for another 10-12. Finished up by just holding at full draw for 5-6 seconds for a half dozen shots.

You have to use your string arm bicep to transer the draw to your back muscles at some point, but if your bicep is burning while you hold at full draw then you haven't "broke over" to your back. Your elbow should be straight back or even further. If it's not, you will know it pretty soon in this exercise.

I have three bows that I shoot. My main hunting bow is 63#, then I have a warf bow that pulls 52# at my draw. Last but not least, a Sky Hunter that is 42#. After I wear myself out on the first, I go to the next and then wind up on the Sky. I can shoot it forever. When I do this I feel it the next day pretty good.

Even when I'm not holding at full draw for strength, I hold longer than most. I just try to make each shot count for something. Anyway, like I said, it builds back up pretty quick, so I should be close by turkey season. Not that it matters since there is no way to slow draw on a turkey.
Glynn


p.s. Smokepole, can't get a message to you,your box is full.