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Huntsman22
03-28-2005, 07:54 PM
Guys,I have an old Optimus 99 gas stove.It has served well and faithfully for lots of years.It has been a gazillion miles in a pannier or saddlebags to cook lunch/dinner or boil water. I like its bombshell little self storing pot/case for the punishment protection it provides while beatin' around horseback.The only downside is the priming.Is there a more modern style or model that is as tuff, that maybe lites easier? Has to burn white gas as I always have extra for lanterns in camp. Thanks,Don

Bushcraft
03-28-2005, 08:41 PM
Hmmm...have you tried the Whisperlite International, or are you partial to an enclosed/all-in-one unit?

Huntsman22
03-28-2005, 09:27 PM
I havent tried anything else. Ever. Guess I do prefer enclosed/all in one.Just 'cause it holds up to the rigors of getting beat around.I looked at the stoves at sportsmans whse. and can't get thrilled at the new-style,space-age, fold-o- matic hose and bottle gizma-hickies.Seems like lots of pieces/parts to get scrambled.Don

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 09:29 PM
I have a Whisperlite International and like all white gas stoves it sucks. First you have to pump the darn thing all the time. Second white gas stinks. But the worst thing by far is the break down rate. The leather stopper has failed me more times than you would expect. Also white gas is dangerous. Starting the thing is not that hard. It gets easier with practice. I stopped using the darn thing. The pocket rocket is good. But even better is an alcohol stove. You can make one out of a can.

http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/pepsistove.shtml

With a windscreen it can boil a pint of water in about 6 minutes and it never failed to work.

If you what to buy one the Trangia Westwind stove is one of the best. With the simmer ring you can cook food with out burning your pot. The stove runs on full power without the simmer ring for about 20 minutes per 2 oz of fuel. With the simmer ring the thing seems to run a long time. Almost 40 minutes. Yes the BTUís are lower but it does not take a lot to cook food or boil water for 3-season use. I use alcohol stove now 80% of the time.

http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/trangia-westwind-stove.html

For the cold or for longer trips I use a HOBO type stove. I own the Zip Stove.

http://www.zzstove.com/

And a trailstove.

http://www.trailstove.com/index2.html

Both are very good. The zip stove uses a motor but I have never had a problem with it running (unlike my white gas stove). The trailstove does not have a fan and it does not need it. The trailstove is a bit harder to run because it does not have a fan but like the alcohol stove there is nothing that can break. Now I know what some people might say. Hay these stoves weigh in 14 oz (trailstove) and 1 lb (zip stove) but remember you donít have to carry any fuel so in reality they are much lighter stoves for anyone that is going out for more than a few days. The battery on the zip stove (one AAA) last for about 6 hours. They have a D battery power supple that you can get and it lasts 35 hours.

Nothing can turn snow into a rolling boil like any of the above wood stoves. It makes the White gas stove look silly. Plus they make for a nice little campfire.

Take my word for it White gas stoves are just not any good. I spent good money on mine and I just donít use it.

Huntsman22
03-28-2005, 09:36 PM
Thanks for your word WW,White gas stoves may be no good, dangerous, and all that,but thats what I want.Am used to 'em and have used 'em since I was a pup.Might be a bit hard to learn a new trick. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Kevin B
03-28-2005, 09:39 PM
hunstman... I know they're passe... but a single burner coleman in white gas works. Aint pretty, aint lite but they work. I have a two burner that's old, but hell if it won't stop working. I don't use them now, I just bought the MSR pocket rocket for one of your reasons. It has few parts. They don't require a regular maintenance kit and no liquid gas spitting to get the mix right.

Of course with the pocket rocket its fuel isn't very good in real low temps so you'll have to warm up the canisters, put them in your bag at night etc to keep them working right. I'm only bringin one for quick hits to heat water or coffee because I'll have the tipi stove for regular cooking...

Anyhow, heres a bunch of white gas options: http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores...category_rn=245 (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=40000000226&storeId=226& categoryId=9727401&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=245)

dan garcia
03-28-2005, 09:50 PM
Huntsman22,
Have you looked at the optimus Nova yet? Not quite as self contained as the venerable 99, but every bit as durable and its optimus quality. For the record I have to agree w/woods walker, on longer trips where I hump my load on my back its Trangia's alcohol stove, but if you're horse or animal packing then white gas (especially for lanterns) powered devices that are properly maintained are a nice luxury to include. The Nove merits some serious consideration for a replacement for the 99, its been in use by the army for the past two years in Iraq and Afghanistan and has many favorable reports from the soldiers (and if anyone can break or ruin equipment leave it to GI's). Incidently the Nova is only the third white gas stove in the past forty plus years to receive an army NSN and be approved by Natick for soldier issue (the other two were colemans). I'm an avid MSR user (whisperlite and XGK) from my days in Alaska w/the old 6th Infantry Division, but the Nova has quickly won me over and I would agruably declare the best white gas stove (currently) on the market, but back to the wisdom offered by woods walker, its ahrd to beat an abundant supply of wood, and no O-rings or leather pump cumps to deal with. Have you or do you use any of Patrick's stoves? They offer a great deal of versatility and like the Zip and trail stove are virtually failsafe, I've even carried one on a recent winter trip and it packed and carried nicely, on horse back it would be much better. Just my .02, HTH

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 09:52 PM
Down side to that Coleman is that BAD things happen if you tip it over. I know! Huntsman If you want to get a Whisperlite get the International one as it seems easier to get started (I think the fiberglass in the priming pan helps). The Coleman single burner will turn into a fireball if tipped over. It has happened to me. It will leak fuel all over if turned up side down. For Car camping I have used my single burner Coleman Peak 1 because it is much easier to get started. Kevin B is right about the pocket rocket. It is a winner in every way. I have used it down to about 15 with out much problem. I put the canister in my jacket for 15 minutes or so. To cut down on the pumping (I hate pumping the white gas stove) get a larger tank for it. Something like the 20+ oz size. Yes you have to pump it more before you start but during cooking you will not have to pump it all the time and spill hot water all over your hands when the thing tips over.

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 09:53 PM
Don't forget to carry a parts kit for it and some oil to make the leather cup work again.

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 10:00 PM
The small stove is a great cooker. It's like cooking at home.

Bushcraft
03-28-2005, 10:11 PM
I've recently switched to the Jetboil for backpacking. Most expedient outfit I've EVER seen. Must say I'm a tad curious about the alcohol stoves. (weight)

Call me nostaligic...but I like the hiss of a couple Coleman white gas lanterns in horse camp.

Woods Walker - I've had the International seemingly since before the dawn of time and have had not had any problems whatsoever. What is the "leather cup" you are referring to?

STTAOW
03-28-2005, 10:30 PM
The leather cup is in the pump that you screw into the fuel bottle. If you take it apart, it sits along the slide action and creates the "seal" that makes the suction happen.

http://images.backcountry.com/images/items/medium/CAS0110.jpg

http://www.msrcorp.com/support/images/pump2exp.gif

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 10:31 PM
Itís inside the pump. If you pump the thing and you donít get pressure then that is what the problem is. It happens to me if I take the stove out during very cold weather (when I need it the most). The alcohol stoves are great. They are very light. The soda can one is something like less than 1 oz. The Trangia must be something like 3-4 oz. Now you need a windscreen and a small support for a pot. I often make a pot support and windscreen using aluminum flashing material and tent stakes. The whole weight is something like 3 oz for the soda can stove and 4-5 for the Trangia. They will work at any temp. However alcohol is not the best thing to melt snow. But it will boil water much faster than you would believe. I have cooked 100ís of meals on them. For 1-3 people they are great. Just use a simmer ring for cooking eggs. Get one you will not regret it. They are cheap. Cost is under 20 bucks to buy and almost nothing to make. For a one-day hike/trip 8 oz of Denatured Alcohol is enough. Only use Denatured alcohol. For longer trips 16 oz gives me fuel for about 3 days. It could last longer but I waste fuel all the time by putting too much in the stove.

dan garcia
03-28-2005, 10:31 PM
Bushcraft,
(woodss walker correct me if I'm wrong) the leather pump cump being referred to is in the actual pump housing on an MSR white gas stove, if stored in dry climates for longer periods of time it can dry (loosing ability to pump air into tank) and crack in worst case scenario. While stationed in Alaska I left my whisperlite in the trunk of my car on christmas leave one year and had this happen, didn't relaize it until I was 2 days and 180 miles into a witner exercise (we still had the old colemans though). This problem can be reduced by leaving your stove pump in the fuel bottle between trips w/the bottle full, but then you run the risk of lead deposit/corrosion buidling up in the bottle and pump housing. It's kind of cumbersome but if you pull the pump cup out after every trip or every few (more humid climates) and coat it gemerously with mineral oil or the MSR provided pump cup oil, replace the pieces and store the entire pump housing in a securely closed ziplock bag it should stay nice and moist in there and work flawlessly on your next expedition.

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 10:44 PM
Sounds about right but why go though the trouble? Burn wood. Hobo stove it. Or alcohol.

Opps almost forgot. The O RINGS can go too. Take some with you if you use the white gas stove.

dan garcia
03-28-2005, 10:50 PM
I agree, I'm a wood and alcohol burning guy when and were I can, some trips though (southern utah or winter expeditions with my scout troop) require white gas stoves and I can't get around it, I haven't used much in the way of propane/butane or isobutane for proper terms, but I did purchase a brunton raptor recently and found it pretty handy and boiled about 2/3 of a liter pretty dang quick (was to busy telling war stories to keep an official time). Woods Walker have you tried using an outback over (convection dome) on your trangia for baking cakes or breads? I'm reading their instruction manual and it says it can be done, but I'd like some real world feedback before I try ot on my own.

Dan

STTAOW
03-28-2005, 10:54 PM
I've used the Whisperlite (non-international) for quite a few years. I have a tendency to take things apart to understand them and I do that a lot, so my stuff usually stay in good working order as a result. I keep the mini-maintenance kit in my stove bag that the stove came with and only once have I actually needed to service it. And that was in sub-zero temperatures. I took apart the pump using the included mini hex wrench MSR includes, popped open the "pump cup oil" (also included), and just rubbed out any stiffness in the leather piece so it was loose and oiled. Put it back together and it's worked perfectly after that. Like most things, you can't expect it to work if you don't give it a little love now and then. The only other problem is my fault, if it's even a problem. I tend to make the priming cup overflow so it creates a big cool flame that Smokey the Bear would beat me for. Once it burns off and I'm ready to cook. Besides that though, I've had absolutely no problems with it from below zero to above ninety degrees; clean as a whistle to uncleaned for over two years, covered in soot. They have a self-cleaning "shaker" mechanism in the stove and it has always worked well for me, too. It packs up in my pot so the whole separate stove/fuel bottle thing doesn't bother me one bit. I've never had the pumping problems or tipping problems that WW mentioned - just put it on solid ground and use a larger fuel bottle so you don't have to pump too often to keep pressure up, and bingo, awesome stove.

I might be moving to the JetBoil stove for liquids and the dehydrated stuff because of the all-inclusiveness, but if you want to use a pot or pan on your next purchase, the JetBoil wouldn't work.

If you'd like, I can do a more detailed review of the Whisperlite similar to what Dan did with the JetBoil stove for you.

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 10:57 PM
Wow one would think that the White gas stove would be a no go with the scouts. I have never hear of an exploding wood stove! I have never used the larger trangia kits. Only the westwind pot support

Woods Walker
03-28-2005, 11:06 PM
Sttaow the stove does not break down on me all the time. Just when I need it the most. Like in very very cold. With the larger bottle pumping it is reduced. The times I had it dump is when I used a small fuel bottle. I still believe that there are much better stoves that never break. I mean when is the last time you could keep the White gas stove running all nigh for a small campfire? Melt UNLIMITED amounts of snow. I just find that for longer trips when I NEED a stove to melt snow or keep warm at night I don't depend on something with 18 parts in the pump alone.

dan garcia
03-28-2005, 11:12 PM
Have any of you guys tried a priming/heating paste for your white gas stoves? This is a practice I got into in alasak, and have stuck with ever since. Much cleaner than priming byitself (less soot) and saves on fuel spent priming=more fuel for cooking and carrying less weight, granted still not as lightweight as WW's sytems and much less eco-friendly, but a great way to make white gas more convenient by eliminating nasty flare-ups during priming. Along with WW's comment on the O-rings, these things are probably the most critical item to inspect on an MSR stove prior to use, I've seen quite a number of MSR stoves "meltdown" because of leaking O-rings on the stove, they don't exlpode like everyone assumes and the users manual states, but they make a nice bonfire, and goody buy camp stove. For my money though I'll keep the MSR XGK's in my arsenal, nothing works better at -50 degrees farenhiet, and the simmerlites are good for my boy scouts for longer trips when we need to feed 10 hungry boys after some hard miles on the trail. Like STTAOW I just toss a small maintainence kit in the stove bag, it only weighs a few ounces, and if anything breakdown or wears out then your a few minutes away from repairing it. I am considering a zip or trailstove for one of my longer solo trips this summer though, uintas in northern utah or the wind rivers in wyoming, both ahve plenty of nature's fuel and I don't mind the wait to heat my water for my freeze dried meal if I'm all alone. STTAOW I think a good workup/ review in the whisperlite wood be good for this thread. I think some cooking tips with the wood burners wood be good too. Too many choices, and not enough trips to use all the stoves on, time to quit my day job and camp fulltime!

dan garcia
03-28-2005, 11:22 PM
Yeah WW, the scouts and the white gas can sometimes be chancing it, but as mentioned above, using priming paste eliminates flare ups and cleaning/maintaining the stoves on/before/after a trip keeps the boys out of trouble. I've been working with different troops since '99 and have had less (potential) accidents with the white gas than camp fires. You know tenage boys and open flame, its a recipe for too much fun and then half the troop gear is up in flames. I do use a pretty rigid certification system for teh boys and (dads) adults alike before I let them operate a white gas stove, when I'm guiding for extra cash on the side it depends on the ptice I'm being paid and the experience level of the client, but usually I do the cooking and they want the gourmet spread (hence the convection dome and the chocolate cake).

STTAOW
03-28-2005, 11:34 PM
LOL, I like how you think, dan. Camping full time would be the cat's meow.

WW - I see your point. I never used the white gas stove continuously like that, and if it breaks down on you when you need it most, I can see where your skepticism stems. I've just never experienced it (let's hope I don't have to). I've only used white gas and campfires on all my trips, and never experimented with the alcohol stoves you're talking about. I can't really compare it to anything, but I can share with you what I do have experience with. So far, she hasn't let me down. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif How cold is "very very cold" to you?

dan g, I should have some spare time this week to do a write up on the Whisperlite. I'll aim to have it done by the weekend if my papers don't bog me down.

dan garcia
03-28-2005, 11:42 PM
ST- I got you bro, I'm just finishing up my undergrad stuff myself, I should have been writing all night, but I've enjoying the this thread too much, lots of good knowledge. Chris Townsend (who camps fulltime for a living!) has some great writeups on the Trangia in his book "Advanced Backpacking", I just pulled it off my shelf and wiped away the dust. Now I'm getting the -itis, the Kifaruitis, I'm thinking I need to add one of Patrick's stoves to my collection, one can never have enough gear, especially stoves!!

Vernon
03-29-2005, 05:36 AM
A tough little white gas stove that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Svea 123R Climber. I've had one for around 15 years. Don't use it much nowadays but I took it out last year and it fired up first try. These things are pretty much indestructible and have been around forever. I use the priming paste (Mautz Fire Ribbon - alcohol based) to prime it. Don't get the pump. You have to remove it before putting the windscreen back on and it's just not necessary. BTW - I currently use alcohol stoves most of the time and butane occassionally. Had a Zip Ztove and sold it - need to get another one. If you just want to boil water you could also use a Kelly Kettle.

Randy
03-29-2005, 05:50 AM
Huntsman,

I still use an old Optimus 8R in cold weather. I was able to find an Optimus pump at REI years ago that completely eliminated priming. No leather cup to maintain. Just a small, aluminum pump and a reworked fuel cap. The tanks on these things are so small it only takes 2-3 pumps to be up and running. You might try REI or even eBay to see if you can run one of these down. Good luck.

Ed T
03-29-2005, 06:07 AM
Huntsman,

I have used the Optimus 111B for way too many years to count now. It doesn't get used often with the little canister stoves like the Snow Peak around, but for serious cooking where the weight doesn't matter it's still my favorite. I have had several MSR white gas stoves and have experienced all the problems mentioned by others. They never impressed me much. The Optimus always has worked best with a squirt of priming paste but then you can cook from a slight simmer to full blown roar.

If I were looking for a new white gas stove today, I would look hard at what Optimus has.

Ed T

CCH
03-29-2005, 10:49 AM
http://www.primus.se/

I have the Primus Omni-Fuel. It's heavy but burns anything (even cartridges). The pump unit is metal, hence the weight, but very stout. Yeah, it has a hose and bottle set up but with the carrying case, I think it is a very protected stove to carry and pretty bullet proof. If you want to check mine out or take it for a spin, let me know.

BrooklynBen
03-29-2005, 04:08 PM
Has anyone here ever tried burning "Everclear" (pure grain alcohol) in a PEPSI-G STOVE?

STTAOW
03-29-2005, 04:12 PM
LOL, no, but don't bring a match too close to me when I've been downing the stuff. Who knows if my breath is at the point of combustion, /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif .

imported_rooster
03-29-2005, 04:16 PM
Anyone have experience with MSR Superfly?

BrooklynBen
03-29-2005, 04:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by STTAOW:
LOL, no, but don't bring a match too close to me when I've been downing the stuff. Who knows if my breath is at the point of combustion, /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif . </div></div>Perfect! You come along and when you fall down (drunk) all I have to do is make sure your mouth is pointed up! (you don't have any kind of beard or mustache you want to keep do you?) /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

razorsharp
03-29-2005, 04:50 PM
I had the MSR stove, I think the Whisperlite, with the steel legs that slide around the thing and click into detents and the rigid hose snaps into one of those red bottles.
I got good with it and about the third time out if failed on me, when I needed it most. I gave it away.
I now use one of those little emergency metal boxes that open up and burn solid fuel or wood.
I don't miss the hassel and mess of that MSR stove.

Vernon
03-29-2005, 05:54 PM
Everclear is all I burn in my alcohol stoves. Don't like the idea of the extra stuff in HEET or denatured alcohol vaporizing in my breathing area.

Woods Walker
03-29-2005, 06:58 PM
STTAOW,

I consider very very cold to be anything from +5 down to Ė10. That is the coldest I have camped out in was Ė11 with a wind chill of Ė30. It was not fun and I have decided that Ė10 (with out wind-chill) would be the coldest I am going to do. But let me tell all of you how much better my camping has been with wood burning stoves and heated shelters. My Ancestors knew it yet some how in this Gortex world I forgotten.

I collect some sticks for about Ĺ an hour at most. That is all I need for the night! I break the sticks up and start up the little hobo wood stove. Unlike a campfire the little wood stove burns a tiny fraction of wood. The amount that a campfire eats in 45 minutes would last the HOBO stove all night. Boil up some coffee cook some food and eat. If the weather is nice (no snow/rain more so than the cold) I will let the hobo stove run for a few hours. The sides radiate enough heat for me and I will just kick back. If the fire goes out restarting is a snap due the reflected heat inside the stove. After that I go into the PARATIPI with the small stove set up. Toss in some wood and light it up. Soon all I have on is my long johns. Why? Because it may be over 120 degrees inside the shelter. I may even dump the shirt. I have done this when the outside temp was 10ís. Here is the fun part. If nature should call I donít even put my coat on. In some cases if itís just a wiz I donít even put my boots on! I just walk out into the cold snow and do my biz and run back inside the tipi. Feet cold? Core temp down? Maybe but not for long! After an hour or so I turn in. In the AM I restart the stove. Warm up. Make some tea or coffee. Cook some Oatmeal the put on some nice WARM boots and head out.

Lets compare that to my last winterís fun with what I believed was the most high tech gear money could buy. I set up the Gortex bivy tent, MSR white gas stove and a silnylon tarp. Anyone that has used the bivy sack/tarp comb knows what the setup looks like. If the weather is good I used the white gas stove in the open but in a storm I set it up under that tarp. Soon the whole place smells like burning gas why? Because that is what I am doing. If there is no snow I start a campfire. But like a bad women it demands more and more and puts out little for all that I am giving it. That means some late night stumble though the woods to find more wood horse and pony show. I then turn in. But to what. I stuff my self in the gortex bivy tent an zip it ĺ up. I fight with the latest and greatest mummy sleeping bag. But there is no room to zip it up. After about 15 minutes of fighting with it I get it done. But ohhhh nooooooo. I need to go. So back out of the sleeping bag. Out of the bivy into the cold. When I return guess what? I am cold and the only thing I have to get my temp up is the food I ate before. That means that my body will toss and turn, shiver and shake and not sleep. So much all that gear! For what. I saved 2 lbs. A rotten stinking 2 lbs. And yes in the morning my boots are a frozen block of ice. Just what I needed!

In the warmer months I use a camping hammock and the alcohol stove. I am traveling a lot more in the warmer months (daylight) and the reduced weight easy set up and clean fuel all comes together.

This is not to say that I believe that anyone who uses white gas stove are doing anything wrong or foolish. They often do work and they do produce a lot of BTUís for the weight of fuel carried.

Huntsman22
03-29-2005, 07:05 PM
Thanks for all the replies,fellers.Randy, I'll look for one of the pumps.This is a simple fix to my main gripe,as this stove has a lot of life left in it.Momma enjoys her hot chocolate and I'm not gonna go wood or alcohol.Lots of knowledge here,glad I can tap it once in a while.... Thanks, Don

shu
03-29-2005, 08:13 PM
Don, you got your answer but I'll chime in anyway (hope ya don't mind)...

The Optimus stoves are probably the best thing going in gas; I like the Nova in particular but it has the separate bottle. I suppose I just like to tinker but I still like the MSR Whisperlite too--I have used them since the mid-80's, in all conditions, with temps down to 20-below, and never had a problem I couldn't fix in the field. But I grew up with the old Coleman two-burner stoves and double-mantle lanterns so I guess I already had a pretty good education on how a gas burner works... as you probably figured out, the leather 'stopper' everyone is complaining about is the same as the pump cup on the Coleman's; even a little spit can work to get them moistened up and sealing again.

The canister stoves are a lot like electric lighting - "instant ON" - and infinitely more 'idiot-proof' than gas (not meant to insult anyone, just a comment on their ease of operation), alcohol is fine in the summer, wood is the most fun but can take some looking on a wet day or in open country... in the end we all gets to carry what we likes so more power to you.


EdT, the website says the 111 weighs about 3.5#, is that right? Not much when compared to the old Coleman's but fairly substantial by today's standards if that is accurate.

Ed T
03-29-2005, 08:22 PM
shu,

I believe thats right. The 111B is an anchor of a stove. That why it doesn't get used much. When camping with a boat or sled is about all the trips it gets to go on. You can really do some good baking on a 111 using a jello mold.

Ed T

Huntsman22
03-29-2005, 08:43 PM
Shu, Your gas burner experience parallels mine. I've even replaced the new style rubber pump cups with the oldstyle leathers in my lanterns.Seems like you can always make the leather come to life,but when the rubber dies,its dead for good.My old red coleman single mantle often catches fire when lighting.No big deal.Light it outside and if it catches fire,just whirl it around your head a few times /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif to put it out.I still like a gas stove for a quick lunch or chocolate break without the hassle of finding wood so I'll continue the tradition while out of camp.The cylinder stove in the tent does the rest of cooking and drying duties.

shu
03-29-2005, 08:55 PM
Ed T, we call that weight 'durability'... it may not feel good on the back but it will outlive a dozen Pocket Rockets and make a better meal in the meantime.

H22, I had to laugh when I pictured a crazy man out in the woods whirling a flaming lantern over his head... sounds like something out of "Rumplestiltskin".

elmbow
03-29-2005, 09:45 PM
Huntsman22, I guess I'm old fashioned as well because I love my old Coleman stoves and lanterns. I still use my dad's single burner blue enameled Coleman lantern mfg. in 1939 and it works as well as the new ones I bought in the 1970's and they still work great. I use a Larsen dutch oven/propane system for camp cooking and heating nowadays but I'll still throw in a Coleman two burner stove when I'm going for a short trip. All my lighting is handled by multiple Coleman lanterns. I keep Coleman lanterns ready to go in the garage for power outages and it takes about five minutes once a year at a minimum to keep your leather pump seals going and they beat the s*** out of the newer rubber ones. If you can find a knowledgable repair shop for Coleman lanterns, they'll carry the old mantles that are soaked in Nitrate. They burn much brighter than the new PC ones. White gas is an amazingly compact source of energy and I always have a half dozen cans in the garage for emergencies. As for backpacking stoves, I've used my old Peak multifuel all over the world with great success. I've burned Army 'mo gas, 3rd world kerosene and aviation fuel in it and it's never let me down. Obviously it has required maintenence and I keep extra generators on hand for it but it still goes in my pack if I'm not taking the Kifaru with me. When I use it in extreme cold conditions I preheat it with lighter fluid. I've never used any of the other stoves mentioned here because I've never seen the need to buy one. Quite possibly they are the cat's meow and are superior to the White fuel types but since I've converted to wood, I don't care.
One of the reasons I enjoy camping is because it's a tradition for me.I grew up doing it with my dad and his dad. I simply can't imagine having a camp at 9000' without having the hiss of Coleman lanterns to keep me company. Last time I was in Yellowstone was just before park closing in the fall and I had camp set up at the Slough creek campground. We were there to watch the Griz fatten and do some fishing. My camp consisted of three Springbars, a teepee, about 5 coleman lanterns, 5 dutch ovens, tables, chairs, etc. I imagine my camps to be like Ennis Mitchell's must have been when he ran his Wind River fishing camps in the early 1900's. Everyone else in that Yellowstone campground would come back at night, crawl into their little geodesic dome tents and eat their mountain house and gorp over their single burner backpacking stoves by the light of an led headlamp. What a shame!

Vernon
03-30-2005, 06:23 AM
Daggonit Elmbow, now you gone an done it. Your talk of the Yellowstone camp has got me ready to do something like that. Sounds like you'd need some pack stock to carry that stuff into the mountains. BTW, who is Ennis Mitchell? Couldn't find anything on the web.

elmbow
03-30-2005, 09:06 AM
Vernon, I suppose you could use a pack string but that's my vehicle supported camp. I used to set that camp up every August and leave it until the rifle hunts were over in October and never worry about anyone vandalizing or stealing. I don't do that anymore. It's a shame but things have changed in the woods.
My mistake on the name, it's Finis Mitchell. He was out of Rock Springs WY and pioneered the practice of stocking high country lakes in the Wind River range with fingerling trout via horseback in the 1930's. He and his wife used to run a fishing camp on the Big Sandy during those years. My grandpa was an avid flyfisherman and spent some time with him in their camp. Someday, when I don't have a choice, I may end up with a big truck and a fifth wheel but as long as I can hold out, my camps are going to be canvas and Colemans. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

BrooklynBen
03-30-2005, 11:43 AM
Vernon - when you use the Everclear, do you ever have trouble seeing the flame?

BTW, It's sad, but I would think if Finis Mitchell were to try and repeat his services today he might do some significant jail time for all sorts of Federal and State environmental "crimes".

Vernon
03-30-2005, 04:25 PM
BB,

I don't have any more difficulty seeing the flame w/ Everclear than I did with HEET or denatured alcohol. At night, no problem, during the day it's pretty hard to see.

Vernon
03-30-2005, 04:32 PM
Check out this link (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r105:S17MR7-25:) for information on Finis Mitchell and the proclamation of Finis Mitchell Day. Be aware that there is a discrepancy in the text on when he quit climbing because of an accident but other wise it's a good read. Unfortunately people of his ilk seldom surface these days. I don't know if it's because they don't exist or if society doesn't allow them to exist.

don
03-30-2005, 05:54 PM
Now the USFS has serious plans to poison out all the non-native fish in some of the high hanging lakes in the Bob Marshall. Lakes that did not have fish before they were stocked.Got to save those W slope Cuthroat.
don

BrooklynBen
03-31-2005, 11:36 AM
"Vernon" - thanks for the info on Everclear. I think I'm going to be a 'happy camper' now! /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Vernon:
I don't know if it's because they don't exist or if society doesn't allow them to exist. </div></div>"We stand on the shoulders of the giants that went before us." I'm 52 and I believe the last generation to be inspired by great men as a child in school. True heroes, and their qualities, are completely hidden from our children today. In fact, the educational focus today is upon "victims" and the large majority of idols today are "anti-heroes". Without inspiration the human spirit has little hope of triumphing.

Sorry for the rant guys.