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HarpT
11-11-2013, 11:45 PM
I have some lock and loads mounted to the outside of my gear sometimes and something I've noticed is if the loop of webbing it's attached to is a little bit loose that the 3 bar slider will fall out of it's mounted position and the pocket become unattached. I'm wondering why only the belt pouches have the extra slider that's smaller and pulls through the bigger one to lock it in place. I'm also wondering where I can get some so I can mod my lock and loads. Anyone know what these things are called and where to get them?

rhunter424
11-12-2013, 06:02 AM
Make sure you're attaching the 3 bar sliders correctly:
http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?t=16493&p=188010#post188010

HarpT
11-12-2013, 09:27 AM
Make sure you're attaching the 3 bar sliders correctly:
http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?t=16493&p=188010#post188010

Yes, thanks Ryan. I have been. I guess I can see where if lock and loads had this extra slider that it might be difficult (or impossible) to thread two different pockets on the same common loop but if the pals channel is stretched out at all just reversing the single 3 bar so it's folded over doesn't secure it well enough. Or it the fabric the pals grid is sewn to isn't taught enough the same thing can happen. Anyway, where can I get some of the smaller sliders like on the belt pouches?

Ralph
11-12-2013, 10:44 AM
They are called 1" oval metal slides or oval tri-bar slides. You can get them from MilSpec Monkey
http://milspecmonkey.com/store/15-hardware-diy#/page-2

HarpT
11-12-2013, 04:55 PM
They are called 1" oval metal slides or oval tri-bar slides. You can get them from MilSpec Monkey
http://milspecmonkey.com/store/15-hardware-diy#/page-2

Thanks for trying. No, I'm not looking for those ones. I already have those on the lock and load. These are the standard equipment for lock and loads. What I want is the ones that are used in conjunction with these exclusively on the belt pouches. They are squarish and smaller - small enough to fit through one of the slots on the standard 3 bar.

MojoSlim
11-12-2013, 05:07 PM
You're looking for the smaller "KU" slider. I don't think that their purpose on the newer belt pockets are for the "locking" the larger 3 bar. I believe they were added to make the belt pouches all compatible with both the standard packs and the KU packs (skinnier webbing). I don't think anyone has found a source for the actual smaller 3/4" 3 bars (tri-bars) that Kifaru uses, but there are a couple sources out there for ones that will work:

http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/D-Rings-Tri-Rings-Triglides-Looplocks-Sliders/3-4-Metal-Tri-Glide-Single-Bar-Black
http://www.etsy.com/listing/69360202/tri-bar-strap-adjuster-slide-34-inch-50


This is the closest I've gotten:
http://www.strapworks.com/Metal_Slides_p/ms-f.htm



Also, depending on how many you need, a call to Kifaru might yield some; they have been known to send some spare parts with orders when requested.

HarpT
11-12-2013, 06:02 PM
You're looking for the smaller "KU" slider. I don't think that their purpose on the newer belt pockets are for the "locking" the larger 3 bar. I believe they were added to make the belt pouches all compatible with both the standard packs and the KU packs (skinnier webbing). I don't think anyone has found a source for the actual smaller 3/4" 3 bars (tri-bars) that Kifaru uses, but there are a couple sources out there for ones that will work:

http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/D-Rings-Tri-Rings-Triglides-Looplocks-Sliders/3-4-Metal-Tri-Glide-Single-Bar-Black
http://www.etsy.com/listing/69360202/tri-bar-strap-adjuster-slide-34-inch-50

This is the closest I've gotten:
http://www.strapworks.com/Metal_Slides_p/ms-f.htm

Also, depending on how many you need, a call to Kifaru might yield some; they have been known to send some spare parts with orders when requested.

They look more like the ones from etsy, the ones from rockywoods are too narrow. Do you have belt pouches? If you go to the hunting section on Kifaru's site where the belt pouches are shown in "Pockets" there is a video with Snider explaining it. The smaller slider is connected on the same bit of nylon loop (attachment point from the pocket) as the standard 3 bar, so when both are slid together though a PALS channel the smaller one can be slid back through the last slot on the bigger 3 bar and then flipped in reverse position. This makes it impossible for the standard 3 bar to fold under or come loose from the PALS grid. It's really quite clever. I wonder who thought of it? But what it seems you're telling me is the standard sliders on KU equipment are these smaller ones?

HarpT
11-21-2013, 01:13 PM
After considering my options to get this mod on my lock and load pockets (which aren't necessarily made for external mounting on molle but can be used for it) it seems to take out the bar tack with a seam ripper in order to get the other slider on there might not be such a good idea. There are so many stitch holes from the bar tack that the fabric may not take another one over top of the same area to complete the mod (i.e. bar tacking the attachment point back in after getting the other slider on it.) My conclusion is that if there is a loose or stretched piece of molle webbing or if due to the fact that the fabric where the molle channels are sewn isn't pulled taught enough to provide a secure mounting surface for the lock and load system (if the mounting surface isn't stretched tight the lack of tension on the attachment points can cause the sliders to turn over and slip out from under the molle channel,) the best way to fix this is to sew a stitch line at the very end of the loop the slider is on. This makes the attachment more secure because there is less room for the slider to negotiate movement. Just a fraction of a centimeter will probably make a big difference. I would say, no thicker than the width of the thread being used to sew it or that is necessary to allow the needle to actually pass through. And it would be wise to pull the loop in it's taught position as it would be when mounted before sewing the stitch line to make sure it is sewn in the proper place so that one side is not longer from the stitch line.

The other possibility is that the loops which serve as attachment points where the slider is located from the pocket are slightly longer than they should be. Believe it or not, everything that comes from Kifaru is not always completely uniform or perfectly exact in it's replication. So, there are slight variations such as this (as can be expected with any manufactured product) which can occur. And just a fraction of a centimeter in this instance can be the critical difference between producing the necessary tension to keep the pocket mounted securely or having it be too sloppy that it may come loose.

At any rate, the belt pouch mounting system works well and I have found two different ways to use it. The big 3-bar slider doesn't need to be pulled through the molle channel, but just the small one. Flip the small one over after getting it through and tension is created because the big 3-bar is in the same position on the other side of the channel. This locks the attachment point in place beneath the molle channel. The other method (which I like better because it's gentler on the webbing) is to pull both sliders though and then pull the small slider back out through the furthest slot on the bigger one. Then turn it over underneath. Now you have two sliders switched opposite ways on the same side of the webbing sandwiching the webbing in between them and neither slider can turn over.

HarpT
12-11-2013, 08:23 AM
After viewing Mel's video on Lock 'n' Load pockets, I thought I should qualify the content of this thread by stating the particular pocket with which I was having this difficulty was a #6 pocket that is intended for internal mount (I think.) There is a difference in the construction because the pieces of web or strap which connect the 3-bar slider to the pocket are made from a lighter weight nylon (almost a ribbon type) material. This makes them easier to thread through the same common loop with another Lock 'n' Load without being too thick. Some of the chamber pockets have a thicker web material that the 3-bar slider extends from.

Now, I'm not doubting that the Lock 'n' Loads function the way they are intended to when they perform as Mel showed in the video. But the fact of the matter is I had nothing but a Goretex shell in the #6 attached to the matrix on the back of my HAWG and it came loose twice. At first I thought it was the slot of webbing on the pack where it was attached because I had slid the handle of my knife through it a few times and so it was slightly stretched. But I also had the same problem when I moved it and attached it to a different spot on the same pack. It was the same corner (top right) that popped out both times and the pocket was not under stress when it happened either.

Maybe there was something wrong with this particular pocket, I don't know. Maybe the attachment point wasn't sewn in the exact right spot. Maybe it had something to do with the material of the pocket being 525d nylon rather than 500 or 1000 Cordura? I don't know. And while I appreciate how important demonstrating the effectiveness of the system is for Mel and Kifaru, nevertheless the problems I have described are what occurred in my experience with it.

The following pictures show how Lock 'n' Load pockets equipped with both the regular 3-bars and the KU sliders can be attached for maximum securement even when the surface that the pocket is attached to is sagging or not pulled tight enough to supply the tension needed for the system to function optimally.

14039

14040

14041