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SubSailor
06-19-2013, 05:05 AM
I am dangerously close to pulling the trigger on a pack setup. I wanted to know if anyone could post a pic of a Zippy D&L'd on an EMR and possibly provide any insight. This is the setup I am looking at. I am thinking about putting long pockets on each pack, mini's on the zippy, and an organizer on the zippy. Also if anyone in Hawaii has a similar setup and would be willing to let me see it and poke around I would greatly appreciate it.

Also if anyone has any input I would appreciate it. I am looking for a pack that I can use to backpack through the PACNORWEST with my 2 boys. They are 9 and 7 so I will be carrying most of the gear. I want to be able to go on trips up to 3-5 days in length. I do not plan to make them minimalist type trips. I want to carry enough gear that it is enjoyable for the boys and that I can teach them the skills they need to camp/backpack on their own someday. I do plan to pass the Zippy on to my 9 year old and have him carry some of the load so that he has a sense of helping with the trip. I have thought about buying an E&E for my 7 year old also. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for your time.

- Nick

techbrute
06-19-2013, 05:46 AM
Do your kids a favor and get him a real pack. I know everyone here looks for any excuse to buy something from Kifaru, but the E&E is merely a small pack for a large person. For half a pound more and about the same money, you can get a true kids backpacking pack.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WSTBH6?ie=UTF8&camp=213733&creative=393177&creativeASIN=B002WSTBH6&linkCode=shr&tag=twceba-20&qid=1371642017&sr=8-1&keywords=deuter+fox+40

Benny BC
06-19-2013, 05:55 AM
That's awesome you're trying to get the lads out there mate.

If you're looking at getting the boys to carry some of the load I'd be more inclined to use maybe the X-Ray or Scout for the 9YO & maybe the Scout or TG1 for the 7YO. Not sure if Kif makes a belt small enough for them but even the Scout & TG1 can be used with shoulder straps. The kids won't grow out of the packs for a while either....like ever. I might be off the mark here as I don't have kids & I've only got the TG1 but I can fit everything I need for a day trip. As the lads get older you can load em up a little more without having to get another pack, & they'll be comfy doing it.

Like I said, I might be off the mark.

SubSailor
06-19-2013, 05:58 AM
22" seems a little tall for my 7 year old. I have looked at similar packs and I am not 100% sure that it will be 3 day comfortable for him. His backpack he uses for school is about 17" tall, which is slightly taller than the E&E. That is why I was thinking it would be a good pack for him. It is also something that I do not think could be overloaded for him. I am definitely open to counters though.

jljmonky
06-19-2013, 06:59 AM
I had a thread going in the just good photos section of my 3 & 5 year old in custom colored E&Es. I cut a small piece of closed cell foam pad as a "frame" and it can be used as a seat. I would recommend that because it would make a great day pack but for multi day trips take the munchkins to a brick and mortar store with smart people and try on real packs. REIs warranty and customer service are pretty awesome.

Exploriment
06-19-2013, 08:34 PM
An EMR with Long Pockets on it, and then a Zippy on that with Mini Long Pockets on that? Plus an Organizer? That's well over 11,000 cubic inches. It may seem like a great idea in theory, but I think the reality of it will have you re-assessing that before long. And D&Ling a pack on to the back of a pack that big, in my own experience - sucks.

Treebeard
06-19-2013, 11:44 PM
The EMR is the largest pack I have ever owned. It's huge... Once he gets he will see what I mean. I have an EMR with two long pockets on the side, a back pouch, and then a horizontal long pocket across the sleeping bag area. I have two 2Qts coming as well for under each side long pocket for extra. As it is, I don't come anywhere near to filling it all up if I were to just carry my own gear. I'm over 10,000 cubes right now and that's insane.

SubSailor
06-20-2013, 02:25 AM
An EMR with Long Pockets on it, and then a Zippy on that with Mini Long Pockets on that? Plus an Organizer? That's well over 11,000 cubic inches. It may seem like a great idea in theory, but I think the reality of it will have you re-assessing that before long. And D&Ling a pack on to the back of a pack that big, in my own experience - sucks.

Why do you say D&Ling a pack to the back sucks?
This is what I want to figure out and why I would like to see the packs IRL to see if the Zippy D&L'd to the back of the EMR will be awkward. The picture on the website has a Scout on the back of an EMR with a claymore and two long pockets and it seems like everything is snug and secure but I would like to see it from all sides and would like a little better frame of reference.
I do not think I will have problems filling them when I take the boys out. I want to have the option of carrying it all on one frame so that we can keep the hike moving when it is late and the boys are tired of carrying their gear and I want something that can be broken down to allow them to help when they can.

Exploriment
06-20-2013, 03:39 AM
Because it does. Having tried it a bunch of times, it is (to my mind) something you do when you’re moving your gear down from the car to the boat launch. Or from the plane to the truck when you’re deploying with your big ruck with all your living stuff and a patrol pack you’ll be using outside the wire. Or carrying a wounded buddies pack to helo pick up point. Or a very late season/rough terrain hunting trip not too far away from the trail head, so you can set up a spike camp and have a more substantial day pack to venture out with. I’ve done it for portages on canoe trips. 300 meters, and later in the day another one of 700 meters. Fine for that sort of short term bursts of suckage. To walk around with that for hours and hours and hours, day after day after day? No thanks. The EMR is a huge pack, and to then stick another decent sized pack onto the back of makes for an unwieldy, far out from the center of gravity monstrosity. Sure, it can be done in a pinch, but if you think this is a viable, long term solution, you need to give some very serious consideration to what you’re planning to carry. I'll say it again; an EMR with long pockets, plus a Zippy with mini long pockets and an Organizer on that Dock & Locked to the back of it, is not an advisable set-up. I guess it’s nice that you want to spare your kids any discomfort, and carry as much of their stuff as you can and give them a maximalist camping experience. But I can almost guarantee that after five days of the set-up you imagine, you’ll be coming back on here to tell us that it is indeed a bad idea. You need to give some serious thought to what you plan to carry, and more than likely, pare a bunch of it back.

74 or more
06-20-2013, 06:20 AM
This thread has a picture of a Zippy D&L to an MMR:
http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?t=33118

I love the Idea of D&L a zippy to my ZXR but I do see what Exploriment saying. I can totally see how it would be a bit awkward. I'm really happy with my ZXR/E&E/2 longs combo.

robcollins
06-20-2013, 12:09 PM
I very much agree with what Exploriment and jljmonkey said earlier. The nice thing about getting a kid pack for your kid is that they will have a pack that fits them and they take responsibility for carrying it. I have a 9.5 year old daughter and a 4.5 year old son, both started at 3.5 years old, and love having their pack. When #1 outgrows it, pass it along to #2, then sell it & move up. They hold their value pretty well. We've got a REI Passage 40 for our girl (this holds a sleeping bag, water, jacket, pocket knife, etc) and a REI Tarn 18 for our boy that holds water and a few toys and snacks currently but can hold more. They seem to act like it makes them feel big, and the suspension fits them and puts the (small) loads on their hips.

I also agree that an EMR is huge. I've got an MMR (I'm 5'9.5") and I load heavy weight as close to my pelvis as I can, leveraging stuff up and away (like D&Ling an E&E on an already huge pack) transforms it into riding like an ALICE frame, causing you to have to lean forward to counter it. I've carried a CFP-90 with the assault pack FULL on a 3 mile trip that gained ~1700', and threw up. Never AGAIN!

techbrute
06-20-2013, 12:20 PM
If it were me, I would go with a proper kid's pack (lots out there, echo the REI suggestions), and then just lash it to my ruck if I needed to carry it for a while. Any way you cut it, there's a difference between making something work (an adult pack on a kid) vs something being optimal (a real kid's pack.)

jljmonky
06-20-2013, 01:56 PM
I have also piggy backed a day pack on a larger sized pack and it does blow... I have to test the theory but I run a slick zulu most of the time. I have really focused on what I NEED vs. what I WANT. The intent behind my double E&Es was to rig the D&L off to the sides somewhat, they would click in on the forward most channel and then more toward the center of the back over the top of whatever side pouches I had. I have accepted that my kids won't carry their packs for long at their age so I needed a way to do it for them when they get tired, it's easier than listening to the whining and getting upset. I think you can make this work by starting with some light car camping to really weed out what you need and don't need. Make your packing list, load it in the car, head out and mark off anything you don't use. Next trip take it and leave it in the car so if you do find a "need" for it you still have it. Write down things you ID that you do need. An E&E with added lashing points on bottom would be enough for them to carry their own sleeping pad rolled up on the bottom (way light) snacks, water, jacket, basic emergency kit and some toys or something... dad gets stuck with the shelter and sleeping bags as well as the extra socks and undies... really not that bad if you are using actual kid sized sleeping bags.

SubSailor
06-20-2013, 02:10 PM
I appreciate the input. These are the things I want to sort out before I pull the trigger. Thanks for the time guys.