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Ralph
06-15-2013, 11:45 AM
Nineteen years old, on a "spiritual quest", female, naked...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/11...n-state-forest

It's been a week with no trace of the kid. My first thought was that this wasn't very bright of her. The terrain is rough, the weather is generally cool and rainy and she has, apparently, no protection from the elements. Her survival is not promising. On reflection, however:

In the earliest days there was some difficulty in telling men from monkeys. Men were worth the time and trouble to raise, monkeys? well, they were table fare. The first test was the ability to speak. Monkeys can't learn language while men, or those who can become men can. This meant that some who were born mute or deaf were out of luck but generally the test was valid. The next test was whether the individual could, at will, overcome instinctive reactions. This usually involved some sort of manhhod test (although women were also tested but in a different way. Monkeys will flee from a source of pain, determined men will not.

We no longer have a manhhod test in any formal way. In the current world we have quite the opposite. Not only are we overprotective from harm but are increasingly overconcerned about comfort and even avoid anything that may be even vaguely offensive to someone, somewhere.

About the only place were we have anything like a manhood test is the military service. Anyone who has been through basic training will tell you it is neither easy nor comfortable. In fact, you are pushed to your limit and then some. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, limited time and resources are available to equip you with the outlook and skill set to keep you alive and effective on the battlefield. Second, is to show you that with determination you can adapt and overcome obstacles that may at first seem impossible. This is why the experience changes you forever - and mostly for the better. Those who can't make it through basic training will, in all probability, also be unable to make it through life in general.

This young woman, and others like her are, in effect, filling in where society has left off and creating there own tests of adulthood, identifying themselves as men, not monkeys.

Maybe we, as a society, should have a formal manhood test. Many kids seem to crave it. While I am not enthuiastic about a military draft it may not be a bad thing. First, it would expose all, or most, of the reasonably able-bodied to some significant life experience and show them a lot about themselves. It would also demonstrate, forcefully, that freedom is not free and that some things are worth risking one's life for.

Ralph
06-17-2013, 11:27 AM
It has been more than a week, she has no clothing, the temperatures have been in the 40s at night and there has been rain off and on. The search has been suspended. All told, my best guess is that she is gone. The last trace was on a road. If this isn't a scam and if she was picked up it wasn't for any good purpose or she would be back home by now. So either she was abducted or is lying dead somewhere in the forest.

BrooklynBen
06-18-2013, 01:13 PM
On one hand; the gal is to admired for wanting to test herself. Jumping off tall cliffs can offer a good set of tests as well, but I wouldn't recommend doing so. All of this comes down to common sense and each individual being responsible for the choices they make.

A friend was telling me lately that he was in a foreign country and was in the process of renting a 4-wheeler for some fun with a friend. The owner then asked him to sign a long form agreement which he assumed was a liability waiver. But the owner informed him that the laws already protected him for whatever choice a renter makes. Rather, the form was a promise to financially replace the 4-wheeler if my friend destroyed it, dead or alive!

I like these common sense laws. They would hopefully lead more people to take personal responsibility for the decisions they make in life, instead of our current culture of automatically finding others to blame for anything bad that happens.

Ralph
06-21-2013, 06:32 PM
There is still no trace of her. I've been following this story, and the comments some make about it. I guess a lot of folks don't realize that SAR is labor intensive and the labor mostly comes from volunteers who also have jobs. No one has said anything about re-starting the search tomorrow, but it wouldn't surprise me. When I was on a SAR team we always wanted to find the lost, of course, but after some time had passed the objective switched to getting some closure for the family & friends.

BrooklynBen
06-23-2013, 04:53 PM
A naked body is pretty much a buffet table in the wild. It may sound like a joke, but excluding any chance that this was any sort of elaborate plan to escape someone (family, friend, IRS....) a Buddhist might say she has now truly achieved her desire to be one with nature. Rest in Peace.

Ralph
06-23-2013, 07:14 PM
There doesn't seem to any reason why she would want to disappear and there is no word I can find about resuming the search so I guess that's it. It was a remarkably foolish thing to do and I am sorry for her family and friends. I suppose in a month or a year or maybe a decade someone will find her remains, but it's quite possible she will join the list of those who walked into the woods and never walked out - their stories unknown. The Adirondacks have a fair number of these as do all of the large wilderness areas.

An old friend and neighbor took up hiking in his later years and died on one of his hikes of a heart attack. Jim was on the Appalachin Trail so his body was found within the day. Too bad, but he died quickly doing something he loved - not a bad way to go. However Maureen met her end I hope it was without pain or fear, though I am not optimistic about that.

rambler_wannabe
06-25-2013, 07:19 AM
Ni
We no longer have a manhhod test in any formal way. In the current world we have quite the opposite. Not only are we overprotective from harm but are increasingly overconcerned about comfort and even avoid anything that may be even vaguely offensive to someone, somewhere.


"What should a young male of 21 know, and what should he be able to do?
There are no conclusive answers to those questions, but they are
certainly worth asking. A young man should know how this country is
run and how it got that way. He should know the Federalist Papers and
de Tocqueville, and he should know recent world history. If he does
not know what has been tried in the past, he cannot very well avoid
those pitfalls as they come up in the future.

A young man should be computer literate and, moreover, should know
Hemingway from James Joyce. He should know how to drive a car
well--such as is not covered in Driver's Ed. He should know how to fly
a light airplane. He should know how to shoot well. He should know
elementary geography, both worldwide and local. He should have a
cursory knowledge of both zoology and botany. He should know the
fundamentals of agriculture and corporate economy. He should be well
qualified in armed combat, boxing, wrestling and judo, or its
equivalent. He should know how to manage a motorcycle. He should be
comfortable in at least one foreign language, more if appropriate to
his background. He should be familiar with remedial medicine. These
things should be accomplished before a son leaves his father's
household."

"From Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC, Ret.

As good as any list I know. That and Proverbs pretty much covers it, although cursory knowledge of cooking and home management would be good. It isn't a "test" though.

robcollins
06-25-2013, 09:13 AM
".... A young man should be computer literate and, moreover, should know
Hemingway from James Joyce. He should know how to drive a car
well--such as is not covered in Driver's Ed. He should know how to fly
a light airplane. He should know how to shoot well. He should know
elementary geography, both worldwide and local. He should have a
cursory knowledge of both zoology and botany. He should know the
fundamentals of agriculture and corporate economy. He should be well
qualified in armed combat, boxing, wrestling and judo, or its
equivalent. He should know how to manage a motorcycle. He should be
comfortable in at least one foreign language, more if appropriate to
his background. He should be familiar with remedial medicine. These
things should be accomplished before a son leaves his father's
household."

"From Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC, Ret.

As good as any list I know. That and Proverbs pretty much covers it, although cursory knowledge of cooking and home management would be good. It isn't a "test" though.

Well said. I'm a big advocate of Scouting. The political/media shenanigans of late are nonsense and regrettable and unfortunately steer people out of the program. I learned to camp, cook, fish, shoot a bow, rifle, and shotgun, canoe, first aid, sweat copper, use a compass, on and on and on in large part in that program, and it taught me to look up to men like my dad.

While sad, (very) this was plainly suicide. Why naked? Drugs? Narcissistic hippie nonsense that put SAR folks at risk looking for her.

rambler_wannabe
06-25-2013, 12:08 PM
Heinlein had it pretty squared away, too.

Was she truly naked? or just minimal clothing not appropriate for the weather? I can't get to the original story. I know many that go on a quest to prove themselves, but most bail before they pull a McCandless. There is pushing the envelope and there is just plain beyond your abilities stupid. Naked into 40's and raining is BBGS--beyond bear grylls stupid.

Scouts used to be a good program, but not in a long time. They have been so CYA for so long that kids haven't been able to DO anything for a long time. This last political move may be the last straw, or they may just coast along for another 100 years on a slightly slower descent than society as a whole.

Ralph: Any update to the story? Sadly, BB is right. scattered bones by now :(

And I say NO to a draft. It would become a political tool and they would FUBAR the entire military faster than they are doing now.

Ralph
06-25-2013, 02:22 PM
The girl wore neither clothing nor footwear, she crried a small butt pack with a compass and a small knife. The terrain is rugged and while the day she left might have been clear and mild it did not stay that way. No new information. If there was to be another organized search it would have been last weekend (volunteer manpower dictated) and that was not done.

I have always been of two minds about the draft. On the one hand I never wanted to drag anyone into something they really didn't want to do. On the other - I went on active duty in 1962 as a 2LT in the field artillery during the time of the draft. Most of my junior EM were draftees and almost all were good troops who did what was asked of them despite inconfenience, discomfort and potential danger. They were, for the most part, cheerful, capable and enduring. Many names have escaped me over the years but I can still see their faces and feel the profound respect I had for them. Most of the officers I know agree with me.

I am not in favor of a "public service" option except for those who cannot serve in the military for medical reasons. The military experience is unique. You do things you never knew you could or would do. Responsibility comes quickly. We were short-handed when I entered the army. There were two officers in my first battery, the commander and me, so at 22 I was the platoon leader for 4 platoons of trainees and the battery executive officer in addition to all of the incidental duties (mess, supply, safety, etc.).

Awhile back I read a story about a journalist aboard the USS Enterprise. He was impressed that a 19-year-old was in charge of steering that huge carrier around the Indian Ocean. And that's pretty much the norm. The armed services are not perfect, but there is nothing like it, nothing in civilian life that even begins to approach the experience at usually a very young age.

rambler_wannabe
06-26-2013, 10:00 AM
My view is it is a father's job to do that. Knowing what the average public school kid knows about life in general, I guess there are not enough fathers left.

Sourdough
06-26-2013, 11:28 AM
A male raised in rural and/or bush Alaska is clear about his being at the level of "A Man" at a relatively youthful age. (Speaking only of my personal experience, I was clear about having made a passage, on the day I left home and never returned........at age 15 y/o)






Awhile back I read a story about a journalist aboard the USS Enterprise. He was impressed that a 19-year-old was in charge of steering that huge carrier around the Indian Ocean. And that's pretty much the norm. The armed services are not perfect, but there is nothing like it, nothing in civilian life that even begins to approach the experience at usually a very young age.