Retriever question - forced fetching?

[robcollins]

Ive got a dog that loves to hunt. Retrieves doves just fine. Retrieves just about everything else just fine. Hunts close, responds to hand signals, smells birds. I hadn't pheasant hunted with her until this year, she's 4. I hunt with Nebraska guys who are stuck up. I grew up with Brittanies, and had some GREAT dogs. Dogs that would point with a bird in their mouth. Dogs that found quail under tree roots underwater that we didn't even know had been hit.

This girl did really good, hunted close, got excited around birds, found birds, not quite a point on birds, but close 3 different times in the 3 days I've hunted with her, and very responsive to me even when birds exploded everywhere. She's never had a shock collar on. She was purchased as a pet. She's a 70lb Golden Doodle. (I'm ready for the grief that any "purists" might share, if your ego needs to, go ahead, let fly)

When she finds a pheasant, she's ripping feathers off of it, seems like getting ready to eat it. With everything else I've shot around her, (it's been mostly .22 air rifle shots in the yard) she retrieves it, with a little bit of hard mouthing, but NOT trying to eat it.

I asked a few guys at the Sportsman's expo over the weekend about it, they seemed very excited about the notion of me spending $ to work with her. They also said "if you try this yourself, she'll hate you for it." She's a pet. I'm not spending big $ to accessorize. Spent my youth (before shock collars) getting Brittanies' attention, didn't want that, I've got little kids, so having a great house dog that will bust through chest deep tumbleweeds yet stays close is a bonus all by itself.

Anyone out there taught forcefetching? I'm just throwing this out here, I'm a little gun shy of the retriever forum snobs, and a little defiant because my poodletriever does hunt, and I like hunting her and she doesn't need to be babied. Thanks in advance for any wisdom that is shared!

[David in OR]

I'm not going to play the expert, 'cause I aren't one. Just wanted to say that this is an interesting post, and I'll be interested to read the responses. (And welcome to the board.)

The only thing I will say is that after training up a couple of pretty birdy and highly-bred field springers (who were awesome pheasant dogs), and now working on obedience with a rescued GSD--after reading a lot of stuff that wasn't published when I had bird dogs--I'm now really inclined to at least try motivation-based methods before forcing stuff. I do not know what that would look like in your case. That's why I find it interesting. Good luck! Sounds like a neat dog.

[robcollins]

I'm just ashamed I let know it alls talk me out of getting her into birds because they know so much about bird dogs. A lot of ego based in dogs, apparently. I'm also thinking about taking her out to bird clubs on weekends and just offering to walk along with groups without a gun just to help with shooters, lots of easy, dumb birds. She does well with positive reinforcement, it just seems that a bird in the mouth is reinforcement enough.

I'm reading the heck out of these forums, prompted by getting ready to buy an MMR hauler. Love Kifaru stuff!!! Loved Mountainsmith stuff 20 years ago too... Still have quite a bit of it, and it's not nearly as bombproof as the Kifaru stuff...

[David in OR]

I had recourse to a collar with my second springer. She had good lines and super drive, but I got her at 4-5 months, and by then she'd had time to start thinking of herself as a freelance bird hunter. The collar fixed that fast, but it's quite possible that I could've solved her crappy recall without the collar if I'd tried to find her equivalent of paté on fresh crusty bread. I just didn't think that was the manly dog trainer way... <sigh>

Not that I think collars are always a bad thing, far from it. I get a little annoyed reading the "positive-only" boys and girls who think you can solve every problem with a clicker and a treat. I'd like to see them try that with my GSD when there are other big male dogs around. Sometimes dogs need some come-to-jesus, when they're doing something problematic that is self-reinforcing for them, which pulling feathers probably is!

Does she retrieve dummies? I used to tape pheasant/duck wings to mine. One thing I might try before buying a collar: put her on a long line and let her get to a bird and give her just enough correction when she starts pulling feathers to get her attention (not so much that she thinks you're going to kill her). Then, or maybe even before, with her on the long line, get her retrieving pheasant-sized dummies with real pheasant wings on them. Maybe there's just something so freaking exciting to her about that sized bird, so she needs to be eased into it. How many of us could resist a sudden onslaught of Victoria's Secret models? I know I'd be asking forgiveness afterward... Just a thought.

Good luck, and congratulations on having a neat dog.