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Recce Gear
08-03-2002, 02:26 PM
Mel,

The wait has become unbearable, do you have any updates on the release of the new pointman pack?

drtywk

Mel
08-03-2002, 08:41 PM
drtywk:

The pattern for the Pointman is pretty much done. There are just a few changes to be made, and some small details worked out. We should have the first prototype done by the end of this month. It won't be long now.

Mel

Recce Gear
08-23-2002, 03:59 PM
Mel or Patrick,

Any updates on this project?

Patrick
08-23-2002, 05:50 PM
drtywk--

I'm slap in the middle of testing the 3800 cubic inch not-named-yet pack. Actually, it turns out to be about 4000 cubes, but I like it so well we'll probably leave it at this larger size. All of which is not what you're asking, so let's get to the Point Man.

The Point Man already has patterns and general lay-out. We know what it will look like, what it's supposed to do--all of it. I jumped up to the 4000 pack because I guess I take on the hard jobs first. And this pack was a brand new creation. Once done, we can pop back to the Point Man and turn it out quickly. If I had known you were THAT serious about a Point I just might have shirked my normal "get the dirty work done done first" (like that pun, my friend?) work routine and polished off the smaller pack you hanker for first. Ah, hindsite! In any event, hang in there. Take care of those cute kids. I'll see what I can do to bring the Point online faster. But correctly, of course.

Patrick

Recce Gear
08-25-2002, 01:23 PM
Patrick,

Thank you for the reply, is there any way that you can relay some of the details of the pointman to me or any of the changes you may have made to the design.

drtywk

Patrick
08-25-2002, 03:28 PM
Drtywk--

I don't remember what we went over with you on it out in San Diego, so maybe I'll just start over.

It'll be about four inches taller than the Scout, and have adjustable length shoulder straps (for very tall guys like you and/or for anybody to adjust for vest/armor underneath). Will be about 2800 cubes (Scout is 1300), and be very thoroughly covered with PALS web configuration, including the top lid. Larger hydration bladder (than the Scout). I will probably make it so that the CargoChair will work with it so that you can carry stuff (including your buddy) off the back or sit in it for observation. Please advise on the CC, as we won't be able to stow it inside because it just won't fit, which means if you leave with it attached you'll have to carry it attached the whole way, not stowed. I should report that the CC is getting unanimously rave reviews from the men who've been using the EMR/Scout combo in the field. Zipper near the bottom for access. Will hold a small-to-medium sleeping bag. Basically, the size will be that of our hunting Spike Camp but without the taper bottom-to-top. And the Spike Camp is a very, very popular and useful pack to our hunting customers. In fact, a soldier has given a report of using it in Afghanistan (no kidding), but I think the report is over on the Hunting Board? Very rugged and comfortable and a good size, etc. Of course the Point will be even better size-wise and with all the PALS web and the Military Pocket system will be completely dialed in for rapid fighting purposes. That is certainly the plan, and I doubt it will fail to measure up! 'Course, you'll want to get the GunBearer for it--very trick way to tote your rifle!

Patrick

Nimbo
08-26-2002, 12:33 AM
I am not sure that this idea would work, but it might. To carry the Cargo Chair on the Pointman, maybe a pouch that will hold the CC, on one side have the snap straps to hold it to the pack, and on the other side have it covered in PALS webbing.

Again, not to sure how feasible this idea is, but it might work.

Patrick
08-26-2002, 07:47 AM
Nimbo--

Excellent thinking! We'd have to do that PALS web pattern on all Cargo Chairs just to accomodate the Point (because one CC can be transfered to the other Kifaru-built packs, and many guys will own at least two). We've found in the hunting packs that people just crank the CC up against the back of the pack OR let it stick out sort of like a foot off the bottom of the pack. In other words we don't provide a "pocket" for the CC at all. And it has never been any kind of problem. We decided to provide a pocket for it on the EMR (and I've done so on the in-process 4000) because; a) we could, and b) that pocket can also be the receptacle for flotation foam, and, to some extent c) so that the chair can be got "out of the way". And I'm just not sure this last reason is all that important; like I said, the mounted CargoChair has never given one bit of trouble to any of our hunters, and that includes me. So. I guess the question is: will it hurt anything for the CC to just be mounted on the Scout and left alone?

Excuse me, I just re-read you're post and find that you are talking about an optional CASE to hold the CC--one that lets you plug the Chair onto the Point (or any other of our packs) just like a pocket) and then will accept pockets itself. Well, well. Sure we can do that! What y'all think? Can use this device or not--up to you. Nimbo, you are pretty nimble with design ideas! Congrats.

Patrick

Nimbo
08-26-2002, 10:18 AM
I'm glad my ideas were sound. I had it at like 3 or 4 in am after waking after three hours of sleep, wasn't too sure of how practical it was.

I would definately use it. That way you can have the cargo chair stowed on the back, and still have a whole bunch of gear strapped onto it.

Might be some problems if you had the whole back of the pack loaded up with MOLLE pouches, the CC in its pouch, and then you needed to use CC. You would have to relocate the pouches. I guess you could have the pouch able to hold onto the CC so that any pouches you had attached to pouch would just be hanging underneath the CC. Might be cramming to many uses into one pouch.

I don't yet own a Kifaru pack, but when this Pointman comes out you will have one sold with probably every option you have for it. Without having a EMR with a CC in front of me I am taking a REAL close look at the pics of the CC on the EMR. A purpose built pouch should be able to do the job. Rather nicely the more I think about it.

Patrick
08-26-2002, 02:07 PM
Nimbo--

Funny how ideas pop into one's head upon awakening.

Several ways to look at this "case" or "sheath" device we're talking about. Our own proprietary pockets move around, come on and off, adjust, like greased lighning. But not so standard MOLLE pockets, not at all. But if we make this "sheath" for the CargoChair just like we do our own pockets--mount/dismount/adjust-wise--you could slap it on OVER whatever pockets you have mounted on the Point Man, AND lower it out of the way in a heartbeat for access to said pockets. No real need for PALS web on its backside, it'll be ready to use itself quickly, and you'll have ready access to the pockets underneath. I suppose it could still have PALS, for ANOTHER tier of pockets, but that would be getting WAY techie, not to mention being back-heavy. You following this?

I finished up the "platform" for the panel-loading 4000 c.i. pack this morning (had my own waking up moment). I might just switch to the Point Man and hammer out the first prototype. What with you and drtywk waiting for Points I feel some urgency there. Mel and I finished its final parameters via a lengthy phone conversation about noon. I think the Point is gonna be one HOT pack. Don't go away.

Patrick

Nimbo
08-27-2002, 07:23 AM
I'm following you. A couple of question about the pack in general. What size hydration bladder will the Pointman hold? And will the scout be able to mount to it?

Patrick
08-27-2002, 07:34 AM
Nimbo--

As of yesterday afternoon I am working on the Pointman. Don't know yet what size bladder it will accomodate, but will make it the biggest possible. (Can I assume you want the biggest possible?) And will make sure the Scout will piggyback.

Patrick

Recce Gear
08-27-2002, 03:05 PM
Patrick,

It also needs a zippered pocket inside of the lid and a mission specific lid similar to a brit bergen(as an option). The ability to put a radio inside and a hydration pouch big enough to hold a 102oz camelback bladder. I know I have more ideas but I think these will do for now.

drtywk

eggroll
08-27-2002, 05:45 PM
Hi patrick

are we still on for this thursday?

I have some ideas and prototypes cooked up

-Egg

eggroll
08-27-2002, 05:47 PM
just as a point of clarification, the Scout can hold a 60oz platy-bladder, and from the looks of it maybe more.

egg

Patrick
08-27-2002, 07:33 PM
Egg--

Sure, come on up. It's on my calendar. I look forward to it!

Patrick

Nimbo
08-28-2002, 01:07 PM
Would it be possible to fit in two hydration bladders side by side?

Patrick
08-29-2002, 07:31 AM
Nimbo--

Interesting question, especially since Mel and I were discussing our bladder sleeve just a couple of days ago. Apparently most pack builders just have a full width sleeve across the back of the pack. The sleeve I like to build is contoured to keep the bladder dead center. That much weight needs to be, in my humble opinion. The upshot is that no, you probably can't get two largest-possible bladders in side-by-side. What you CAN do is sorta shingle them, wherein one is riding a bit higher than the other. Understand? Still secured from slopping around, and still centered.

Patrick

Nimbo
08-29-2002, 03:00 PM
I understand the considerations for keeping the load balanced. I am trying to cram as much water into what I carry as possible. Water = good.

eggroll
08-29-2002, 10:28 PM
How much water are you wanting to hump?

water purifier part of your kit?

the hydro slot in the point man WILL be able to hold the 100OZ storm with no problem.

Nimbo
08-31-2002, 06:38 PM
Initally I was thinking that two 100oz 'ers would do the trick. But the other night some bad stuff went down, and my woman wanted to get out of the immediate area quick. On the way out to this place I was doing some thinking. And after I put her to bed I did a LOT more.

I felt vulnerable not having a BOB set up that we could just have grabbed and gone wherever and been good. My current thinking in get an EMR for myself and a Pointman for my woman. Split up the ammo and food 5:2 so she is carrying enough to get by if we get seperated, but not so much that she is getting bogged down.

Probably end up getting both this Feb (I'm getting a nice little chunk of change then) and get virtually everything for both of us. So know I am thinking a 100oz er for her one or two for me, a few nalgene water bottles, and a water purifier in each of our packs.