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View Full Version : Stove in Cableas guide tent?



SHOWMEJOE
05-04-2003, 09:20 AM
I know the best answer to this question is to put the stove in its intend place...the tipee...and I plan to.However I currently own a Cableas guide tent and am heading to Alaska caribou hunting and am itrigued with the posssibilty of installing a stove in the tent. I realize it would take some modification of the tent..ie. cutting a hole in the roof and builing a stove "platform".
I think I could keep from cutting the hole in the tent by arranging the stove in the vestibule..the question to answer then is would it warm the tents interior? I noticed thats would the parastove shows..the stove at the opening.I read the book "bush pilotbowmen" and he stated that he used a dome tent with a wood stove and begin to think of this possibilty.

Any input would be appreciated.And to answer the question on Why? Because I currently own four tents two "family" one Guide and a bivy these with this upcoming hunt limits the amount of funds my betterhalf would allow me to spend. I am planning to purchase a tipee hopefully ,I have a schelude stop at Patricks shop this fall while visting the Grend Tetons with the family to see one in person, and to show wife.

Thanks for any input,
Showmejoe

Sgathak
05-04-2003, 10:03 AM
Unless Im mistaken Kifaru has a kit for you to add stove capability to tents.

Patrick
05-05-2003, 05:50 AM
SHOWMEJOE--

Like sgathak says, we do have a kit. We'll need the heighth of your tent so we can send the correct length stovepipe. I think the kit is 25 bucks. Call the Shop and they can fix you up.

SHOWMEJOE
05-05-2003, 11:40 AM
Thanks for the input and I will be order a medium stove this week.( For future planned purchase of 4man tipee)However could anyone give some tips on best postion of stove,ie..in side tent via cutting a hole or installing in the vestibule ala para tipee?

Thanks again.

Tyde
05-05-2003, 12:31 PM
Showmejoe,
I own a Cabella's Guide Model with the Alaskan Vestibule. I have used propane/canister stoves in mine. Of course the best heat input would be if the stove is in the tent, but I have cooked in the vestibule with good results. The average person can be down to his longjohns in a few minutes with this sort of heat. If you are planning on a wood stove I would start with an adapter for the vestibule (Easy wood access, No Floor, One Fire port). But as you are going for Caribou, I have found that my Guide model has wind problems. And , these would be detrimental to stove use during those times. If you were to place the stove in the tent you would need two stove ports (Tent, Rainfly) and either a section of floor that can be or is removed. As I have done this to a dome tent before, my advise to you is to locate this hole ss that it is not inline with opposite poles. The port sould be on the side of the dome as much as possible to eliminate execess pipe movement in wind. Also keep stove and pipe away from "No-seeum" netting.

Where are you hunting Caribou?

Good Luck and Good Hunting
Tyde

SHOWMEJOE
05-05-2003, 01:01 PM
Tyde,
Thanks for the reply it is very detailed and helpful. I do have acouple of questions though.You mentioned you have had wind problems with the Guide tent? I own a four man is that the one you have? I set it up this weekend to 40mph winds and HEAVY rain thankfully to no problems!I read again in bush pilot bowmen he recommends putting the "blue tarps over the tents for support any thoughts...I notice you can speak from experience being from Alaska. My only experience comes via my neighbor who was a resident for ten years in Alsaka and hunted the Mulchanta herd. I appreciate any first hand information yo can give. I believe I will experiment with the stove in the vestibule before hunting...if doesn't seem to work I will use the Mr heater in the tent..but cocerned about taking so many canisters with weight restrictions.

Sorry so long...I am currently narrowing down my flyin dropoff service comanpies to three Lake Clark Air, Rusts, and High Avdenture for the first week of Septmeber. Any thoughts or additional recommendations? Again thanks and sorry for the long response just excited to be heading to your "paradise".

Thanks,
Joe

Tyde
05-05-2003, 04:47 PM
Joe,
As for the tent, I have the 8-man (Under poled). It is a big sail in the wind, and I have to be particular as to pitching. I have slept in a 4-man and this is more of the size that this tent seems designed for. I don't think they took into account the forces that would be induced by increasing the size to an 8-man. I use a tarp and a 20 oz coke bottle to solve the leak problem that is inhearent on the 6 and 8-man CGM tents. The rain fly sags in at the very top where the triangle of all the poles crossing is. I place the coke bottell vertical near one of the triangle's intersections and this eliminates the sag. Rain flys are not designed to breath so the tarp just adds another layer of water proof/ insulation. With a 30+ lbs. tent a tarp isn't going to add that much weight. I like to use visqueen for this purpose though as it can serve as your steam bath as well. There is a radiant heater that can also be rotated 90 to cook with. If you place that in a 4-man regular vestibule pointing into the tent you could literally drive yourself out. Iwould be careful about pointing it up as I remember the standard vestibules on those were not all that high.

As to the canisters vs. wood stove and the fly-in. You need to know if there is even a viable wood source where you are going to even consider the wood stove. Wood is very plentiful in most places, but I have hunted from a fly-in on a ridge top for caribou and the closest wood was over a 1/2 mile away, down hill. And it was just willow/alder thickets. If you are going to cook with propane canisters already the addition of one or two canisters for heat is not that much weight for those weather days.

But, I am answering a question with little info here, so some of this may be way off base. I don't know what you are packing for gear, food/water, and clothing. And I don't have an idea of the type of area you will be hunting.

Best advise is to use all of your gear before you go out. Camp in your back yard, eat your menu, run the sprinklers to sim rain. You need to be in tune with your stuff before the plane drops you off in the middle of no where with a pick-up in 5 days. Mother Nature can be a real B**** when she wants to.

Real important prepare for bugs (mosquitos and black flies) in numbers that are astronomical for you and your meat.

Good Luck and Good Hunting
Tyde

You can save weight in clothing if you use a system of layers

SHOWMEJOE
05-06-2003, 03:47 PM
Tyde,
Thanks again for detailed reply. I agree 100% with "testing" everything and currntly have ben doing so. I hunt out west for elk every year and hae adhered to the layering idea...and much to my wifes dismay I have collected a ideal setup for me.I start with poly pro long johns,add 3m pants,worstlen shirt, fleece vest,and browning hydro fleece parka, carry HH impertech raingear along with asorted gloves and hats.Luckily for me my wife and kids love to camp so we test all our gear fairly regulary. We have setup a camping trip to the Tetons for a week in July..am stopping at Patricks shop to browse and purchase meatbags etc.
I didn't answer yor question regarding where I was hunting and it apperas possibliy around halfway mountain or flying out of dillingham. I like the idea of propane heat and really didn't state my question right frst time..I am concerned about using and flying propane in the plane..is it approved and does it get to cold to operate properly in Alaska in Sept? I have used propane in Colorado in Sept but have only been to Alaskain July for Halibut.
One final note and question my four man does hold up to wind extremlely well...(Alaska will test I know)but I appreciate the coke can idea.question its sounds as if you do't use it for hunting much are you using a tipee?

Joe

Tyde
05-06-2003, 04:06 PM
Joe,
propane is fine up here during Sep. I have used it during winter in Ft. Greely, so it should be fine in Sep on the West Coast. As to bush planes and propane they are allowed to carry propane (otherwise some of my relatives would have to do without). There are some special rules for bush planes in Alaska. We actually have places "ya kant get thar from ear." if you catch my drift. You need to call your flying service and find out where to purchase the stuff up here (Dillingham most likely) as the big air carriers won't let you check it in.

I do not have a tipi yet. I still use the CGM for some hunts (float, fly-in, 4-wheeler, base camp), but I am getting a tipi in the next year for my outdoor excusions.

You didn't mention foot wear in your reply. A good pair of ankle fit hippers go a long way. I have friends that hunt out of Dill. that wear chestwaders. It is a lot wetter than most people think.

Good Luck and Good Hunting
Tyde

JLBrush7x57
05-08-2003, 05:53 AM
I have a couple of questions regarding heat in tents that perhaps people here can answer. Tyde, you mentioned a propane heater in your eight man. I have a 4 man armadillo dome that I have heated with a coleman propane cylinder heater but I'm always super nervous about enough fresh air circulating. The result is that I never have it on for more than a 1/2 hour at a time, even with the top vented, and I'm always worried about it when it's on. Is a wood stove less of a problem in this regard? Anybody have some good advice about how much fresh air is needed to keep these propane tent heaters safe?

I would like to learn more about these Kifaru adapter kits that allow you to put a wood stove in a regular tent. A tipi sounds great and I would love one but budget reality says that I'll be in my current tent for a while. What does the kit consist of and how does it work?

Thanks for the help and information.

Patrick
05-08-2003, 07:23 AM
jlbrush7x57--

The kit for adapting our stove to a brand x tent costs $25. I has enough fireproof material, binding tape and velcro to do the job. You have to find a local sewer to install it in your tent. Instructions are here on the website, plus your sewer (or you) can call Janice here for consultation.

Tyde
05-08-2003, 10:40 AM
JLBrush
I realize how brash some of my statements may have sounded, so let set some standards out for what I have said.
1. As patrick or any good realtor will tell you the three most import things are location, location, location. I pitch my tent in a relatively gentle to non-slopeing area that is the oposite of a basin (read pond to be).
2. The door is located on the downwind and down hill side.
3. I place my stove just off center, and with clear exits.

With the door downhill/downwind, I leave the bottom unzipped a little (6-12 inches). Carbon monoxide/dioxide is heavier than air and will start pooling in the lowest part of your tent (if at all). The bottom of the door is one of the lowest spots in the tent and any wind (as the door is on the lee side of thetent) will create a vacuum to suck it out. When I have been tent bound, I would burn the propane stove for a time (30 min.-1 hour) and then shut it off. One time we burned 6-hours strait trying to dry everything out and to heat up one of my buddies in a bad way. We don't go to sleep with it on and at least one guy is dedicated to be awake while it is on (firewatch), but that is about it.

I would say if you are really worried about carbon monoxide/dioxide, try your system out in for failure. Pitch your tent on a calm day and flat ground. Place your stove and a carbon mon/dioxide sensor (carbon dioxide detector, canary, etc..) in the tent. Make sure the sensor is/stays up off the ground. Fire up the stove and measure the time to sesor activation/deactivation (depends on type of sensor chosen). This would be what is known in my business as a "worst case senario". Your fears may be unfounded (look at the tomato, thank you Mr. Carver), or they may be validated. Don't do this inside. Don't do this inside. Houses are made to have low air exchange rates.

Good Luck and Good Hunting
Tyde

JLBrush7x57
05-09-2003, 05:11 AM
Patrick, thanks for the info about the stove adaptor kit, certainly something for me to think about.

Tyde, thanks for the advice and tips. I didn't know the detail about carbon monoxide being heavier than air. I appreciate it.

05-13-2003, 04:41 PM
Tyde-Just a note about carbon monoxide. You are correct that it is heavier than air, but the difference is so little that most references list its vapor density as 1.0, or the same as air. If you are using a CO detector, the best location is to put it where you are. If you're sleeping on the floor, put the detector there. If you're like me, and getting too old and creaky to get up from the floor, put it on something that is about the same level as the cot.

Tom

montcur
03-04-2007, 02:00 PM
If it helpes, I got a tent from Belgrade,Montana a few years ago. It is 12 by 12 pyrimid style with a center pole and two foot side walls. Very similar to what Cabelas sells. Maybe the same tent. It has a stove pipe hole in one side. Lent it to some friends to go caribou hunting in Alaska and the wind came up and they about died.(not an exageration) The square sides couldn't take the wind. The side moved around so much the chinmey burnt a hole in the side. When I use it here in Montana when it rains it floods inside with a sew-in floor. Hope this helps.

poel
03-05-2007, 09:26 AM
I have both a Cabella's 8 man Guide dome and an Alaknak II. They have roles for certain types of heavyweight camping and I have used them in my work. Neither is a good design for a highly exposed site. Actually, I try to avoid exposed sites in any tent, even tipis. My experience is similar to Tyde's with the fly on the dome sagging and leaking and I have used a piece of styrofoam on top to prop up the fly. Seems doubtful to me that you'd have good results going through both the fly and the tent body with a stove pipe so the vestibule approach would be the most reasonable. The Alaknak II is set up for a stove and mine has worked well in serious rain, the biggest problem being condensation, which is manageable with mopping and plenty of dry heat. And of course, the thing weighs as much as a condo.

In my CO tests with various tent heaters, I have never found detectable levels when they were burning properly. Used a Mr. Heater propane in the Cabella's dome with acceptable results. But I would never go to sleep with one running. I also used a Svea stove as a heat source in an old Sierra Designs 3-man pyramidal tent for about 20 years with only one near-death experience when the fuel cap leaked. CO is mostly an issue when you put a pot on the flame to cook.

As I see it, as long as you have adequate ventilation in the tent, the biggest problem with heaters that lack a pipe is the H2O component of the combustion products. If you don't have a wood supply but can fly or haul propane, consider the Nu-Way propane stoves which we discussed in other threads. They will connect directly to a Kifaru 3" pipe, and to a 4" pipe with an adaptor. Mine is about 16 pounds with all the fittings and Kifaru pipe for my 12-man.

Gary
03-05-2007, 09:57 PM
Something else to consider -
If you put the stove inside the guide tent, you'll need something to insulate the floor from the stove. These stoves get HOT and the floor under the stove will disappear very quickly. Maybe Patrick can give you a cure for this, but I'd be very careful before firing up the stove. I don't know if the vestibule for the CGT has a floor - if not it would work fine there and I think the heat would carry into the tent w/no problem.
Gary

tkl
03-06-2007, 07:20 PM
This last season we used a cabellas outback guide tent(6 man)on a BC caribou and goat hunt. What I did was get some fiber glass welding mat and made a stove ring. I sewed it in just inside the door and off to the side. The stove we used was a large kifaru and we were lucky to have room on the beaver to fly in some bundles of birch(we were above tree line). The stove heated the tent real well. I used a folded up piece of the matting to lay under the stove to prevent the floor from melting and that worked good. The things that I will change for next season is the floor - I will cut a 3 sided hole where the stove sits and sew in a zipper so it can be opened or closed. This isnt just to protect the floor but more to allow the rain that gets through the pipe ring to drain(it pools up quick). The other thing is the position of the pipe ring. I set it low so the pipe would go out at an angle and be farther away from the side of the tent but in the mountains the wind direction was always changing and it would blow into the end of the pipe and smoke us out. In november my brother and I were using this tent on a mule deer hunt and it was -20 C to -26 C for 3 days and the set up worked great except when the wind would blow into the pipe. One day it happened and I couldnt get the zipper up on the door and the smoke was so bad I was on the verge of cutting my way out before I finally got it. So I think its best to run the pipe straight up, and I am going to change mine. When I move the stove ring I will probably buy a pre-fabbed one because they are cheap and better than what I made. I hope my mistakes help someone.

Huntsman22
03-06-2007, 07:40 PM
Put a pipe 'T' on the end of the pipe. No smoke-outs and wind direction won't matter.....Like this
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/huntsman22/HPIM3132reduced.jpg

idaho lad
03-06-2007, 08:05 PM
Poel,

What did you use for the CO testing? Was it a unit called the TVX? I've used one of these many a time underground, and have found air that was very nasty.

poel
03-07-2007, 11:42 AM
ID Lad - I don't recall the brand I used years ago but the one I have now is "Nighthawk". It is not a sophisticated meter but tests OK and registers CO with pots on flames. It is designed for household use and requires 110V.

idaho lad
03-07-2007, 02:34 PM
Being that you are in the mineral exploration field, I assumed TVX. This is an industrial unit and MSHA approved. Just curious.

As far as CO goes on the above posts, here are some points to consider.

Guys worried about CO in an outdoor setting like a tent really have nothing to worry if the stove is burining clean. If it isn't all you do is step outside. The smoke in a and choking would chase you out of a tent before you were overcome with CO exposure.

I've worked as a hardrock miner in an mechanized mine for sometime. CO is constantly a threat and consideration at the workplace and the exposure you get in one shift underground is quite high compared to a normal occupation or activity like tenting. I've had enough exposure and training with hazardous gases that I wouldn't be concerned with CO in the outdoors while tenting.

In fact homes and old school buildings are much more of a risk from testing I've done with the TVX unit. Old schools are particularly bad.