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Brian in WY
04-21-2003, 12:23 PM
Hello all.

I am looking at getting a little total Ti. revolver as black bear medicine while hiking and hunting in WY & CO. My question is will a 357. mag be enough to get me out of trouble, or will it just get me in deeper doo? /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif I don't think I need my 44. mag to stop a local black bear. Also my legs would like to carry a gun lighter than my vaquero. My hopes are to get this little 24 oz. handgun with a 4" ported barrel. The other caliber I was thinking of is the 41. mag, but I think a 24 oz. gun and the 41. might be a bit much on the wrist. But is the extra recoil worth the bigger bang to the bear?

Basicly I'm looking for the lightest carry, with the best compromise caliber. (don't need hand-cannon, yet don't want to P'-off a bear)

Any suggestions or real life experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Brian!!

Tyde
04-21-2003, 03:32 PM
Brian,
357 is plenty for a blackie. It is not a bone crushing, bear deflating round like a 416 Rigby, but it should be more than enough for your application. As always a little bit of shot placment goes a lomg ways. Had a friend take a big boar (6'-11" on square) with a 357 when he was pistol hunting bruins.

More important than this would be noise. Make a fair amount of it (if not hunting). What you are trying to avoid is startling one of these guys. Thats when the fun begins. But if the woodland creatures know you are there, most times they will try to avoid you or warn you of their presence.

Good Luck and Good Hunting
Tyde

Patrick
04-21-2003, 03:42 PM
Bryan--

What a delightful question. What IS the "best" compromise for your (our) situation? Two of your fellow correspondents here have selected the .41 Ti. Myself, and Ed. I'm a Coloradoan and Ed is a Montanan. Thankfully neither of us has yet had to smoke Smokey with our little firebreathers. And they are fierce little devils in the recoil arena. Especially with 250gr. Cor-Bon solids. Definitely not a plinking load! Regular 210gr. full power loads are tolerable, but not really pleasureable. Nevertheless, on balance, and for the task you've laid out--which is exactly the one Ed and I were looking to solve--you have two votes for the mighty-mite .41. Such revolvers really only have one purpose--the one you want it for.

04-21-2003, 03:46 PM
Well they say carry as much gun as you can handle. A miss with a 500 Linebaugh is worse than direct fatal hit with a 22 rim fire.

But with that said 357 is not the gun I would carry I would much rather prefer one of the following:

44 Special in a Ti S&W 240 grain hard cast lead pill. or even a 240 Grain Hornady XTP @ 800-900 FPS.

44 MAG 275-300 grain hard cast WFN nose bullet loaded to 900-1100 FPS.

45 Colt S&W Mountain pistol loaded yeah you guessed it 300 grain or 310 grain WFN hard cast bullet loaded to 900-1000 FPS +

41 Mag Mountain Pistol S&W 250 grain WFN hard cast loaded over a heavy dose of H110

*******Kimber Ultra carry 45 ACP loaded with 230 grain hard cast loaded +P extra magazine shoulder rig or good forward slant strong side carry holster.This by the way would be my favorite in any bear country with the exception of a good 12 Ga with slugs or short barreled 375 H&H******** Ultra Cary Kimber Light weight lots of fire power easy to handle handgun that you hardly know you have on. Designed for close quarter combat and effective firepower.

Kimber Target Elite with a 460 Rowland barrel and comp loaded with 250 grain XTP ++P

04-21-2003, 04:26 PM
Take a look at the Taurus Tracker Titanium in 41 mag. I think it weighs 27 oz. I agree with Patrick the 41 mag is hard to beat for what you want to do and the Titanium Tracker is a lightweight package. I recently purchased the Tracker but I have not had a chance to shoot it yet?

04-21-2003, 04:33 PM
Patrick after rereading your reply I am wondering if your little fire breather is a Taurus Titanium Tracker?

Patrick
04-21-2003, 05:38 PM
7mm--

The case it came in says it's a 2" bbl. Ti "Shadow" model. Taurus, yes. I think it weighs 21-22oz., but can't weigh it accurately here at home. Perfect little gun for it's job.

I perked up at Rocket's Ti 44 Special, but I handload rifles, not handguns (gotta draw the line somewhere) and those Cor-Bon WFN cartridges for this tiny .41 are spot-on ready to rock. Good combo; an all-round admirable "compromise", which is what this is all about. Besides, it's even lighter. The lightest contender of 'em all, which is why I bought one when Ed reported on his a few months ago.

04-21-2003, 10:04 PM
Patrick,
That 41 mag with a 2" barrel must really be a handful. The Tracker I bought has a 4" barrel. I believe it weighs 27 ounces.

posimag
04-22-2003, 02:45 AM
http://www.smith-wesson.com/Products/Firearms/airlitesc/m329pd.htm

Patrick, here is the Smith they are showing on their web site that has caught my eye. I think this will be a keeper.
Here are the Specifications!!

Action: Single Action, Double Action
Frame: Large
Capacity: 6 Rounds
Barrel Length: 4"
Hammer: .375" Target
Trigger: .312" Smooth Target
Front Sight: "Light Gathering" HIVIZ® Orange Dot
Rear Sight: Adjustable V-Notch
Grips: Ahrends Finger Groove Wood and
Hogue Square Butt Rubber
Weight: 26.5 oz.
Other Features: Lightweight, Scandium Frame for Easy Carry
Powerful .44 Magnum® Caliber
Perfect Back Country High Power Pack Gun
Internal Lock

Overall Length: 9.5"
Material: Scandium Frame, Stainless Steel Barrel, Titanium Cylinder
Finish: Matte Black
Suggested Retail: $900.00

Patrick
04-22-2003, 06:11 AM
7mmstw-- Yep, it's a ferocious little dude at both ends--but I CAN shoot it. I call it The Tasmanian Devil.

Posimag-- Hi there old buddy! Wow, S&W is baaaaack! God bless 'em. A 44Mag at 26 ounces? I think I may find myself knee deep in handguns (again) if this innovation keeps up!

Thing about the little .41 Shadow is you can literally put it in a pocket...and go for a cruise with the grandkids in tow while possessed of a whole lot of confidence in being able to deal with whatever might threaten the little darlin's. Know what I mean?

04-22-2003, 06:18 AM
Patrick,
Will those 250 grain Cor Bons handle a moose?

William Clunie
04-22-2003, 06:25 AM
I feed black bears for a living as a bear guide in Maine. The big ones are four to five hundred pounds. I think the record for black bear in Maine is 680 lbs. I have had a mad momma bear follow me up a tree when all I had was a .357 Mag. It did not comfort me and I felt naked. I now carry a .45 long colt Blackhawk with hard cast handloads (similar to the Garrett).
I am looking for something lighter too.(lighter in weight, not power). I think I am going to get the Taurus ti Hunter in .45cl. I have contacted them and they said it is coming out soon. I will wait for the 4 inch barrel. I think the one out now has a 2 inch barrel?
I won't be plinking away at the range with it, so I'm not worried about recoil. When it comes down to shooting a bear, I won't even notice the recoil. I've shot one bear with a .375 H&H and one with a .308 Win. and didn't notice any difference. My rapid heart rate and bulging eyes blurred any felt recoil!

Patrick
04-22-2003, 08:09 AM
7mmstw--

Should go clear thru Mr. or Ms. moose if broadside out to 50 yards. Making a .410 inch hole on the way thru. Would make for a pretty sick moose, don't you think? These wide, flat nose bullets are phenominal at penetrating. Pretty neat little gun to have in your pocket too, eh?

shu
04-22-2003, 08:39 AM
Brian-

There was a fairly lengthy discussion on this subject a while back. General consensus seemed to be .357 was better than nothing, particularly with something like Federal's 180 grain CastCores @ 1250 fps. Bigger might be better but its no good if you aren't willing to carry it.

My choice for bears has been a 44 Mountain gun with 300 grain LFN--a bit heavy but fun to shoot. I really like the looks of that 329 but would likely load it as a 44 Special (300 LFN @ 900-1000 fps). Recoil with hot loads, particularly with the wood grips, has been described as 'brutal'.

If you are serious about lightweight and effective bear protection it is hard to beat bear spray, but this has not been a popular option on this board. I will admit its not much for potting grouse....

shu

Brian in WY
04-22-2003, 10:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Patrick:
7mm--

The case it came in says it's a 2" bbl. Ti "Shadow" model. Taurus, yes. I think it weighs 21-22oz., but can't weigh it accurately here at home. Perfect little gun for it's job.

I perked up at Rocket's Ti 44 Special, but I handload rifles, not handguns (gotta draw the line somewhere) and those Cor-Bon WFN cartridges for this tiny .41 are spot-on ready to rock. Good combo; an all-round admirable "compromise", which is what this is all about. Besides, it's even lighter. The lightest contender of 'em all, which is why I bought one when Ed reported on his a few months ago.</div></div>Hey Patrick:

Does your little "Taz" have a ported barrel. The Taurus I was looking into was the 41. Ti. shadow with a 4" ported barrel. I hope this might tame the "taz" effect a little bit. Or at least get me closer to an acurate follow-up shot.

Brian

Patrick
04-22-2003, 10:27 AM
Brian--

Yes, it is ported. Follow-up is therefore pretty good, as the little bugger kicks more nearly straight back. But with those hot 250's it does indeed come back with a vengence. Someday I'll fetch some mild loads and see how it performs with less-than-dragon-breath ammo. Accuracy seems pretty good. I really haven't "wrung it out" yet at all. 'Til I do it is still ready to stick in my pocket and ride along, ready to clobber whatever needs clobbering should the need arise. I WILL take it, in other words. It's that little and that light.

I believe Ed's piece is slightly different; perhaps a bit longer barrel, and adjustable sites if I recall correctly. He will probably show up here soon and fill you in on his version. But I'm just fine with mine. A pocket gun that'll knock down a moose has a certain moxie, you know!

Ed
04-22-2003, 12:48 PM
Brian,
My Taurus is the .41 mag/4" ported barrel and adjustable sights. It shoots very well and neither my wife nor I find the recoil too stiff even with the 250 grain loads. I believe there is a lot of difference in recoil between the 2" &amp; the 4".
I went with the 4" mainly due to the sights. I really like the orange insert on the front sight. It is real easy to pick up the sight pattern in poor light.
I will have to load some small game loads for the 41 this summer. When I do i will post results.
Ed

04-22-2003, 02:59 PM
Sundles once cautioned against overloading these lightweight revolvers. Do you folks, or Sundles if you're poking around, know what would be a reasonable limit?

It sounds from the Taurus manual that 250 gr. voids the warranty. Or am I misunderstanding it?

Dang ya'll, getting me coveting something bigger than what I've got (.357). Psychologists have a name for that.

04-22-2003, 04:37 PM
Posimag,
That S&amp;W 329 has to be brutal. I had a 629 3" barrel round butt that was ok with 44 special loads but factory loads with 240 grain bullets were uncomfortable to shoot, stinging the hand. Have you fired the 329?

shu
04-23-2003, 07:12 AM
Regarding the M329--

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With ... full-power .44 Mag ammo, it was not only nastier in kick than even the mighty .500, but for several of the seasoned crew of gun testers was the most viciously recoiling Smith &amp; Wesson they had ever fired. I would put it second in that category; the sub-11-ounce Scandium Model 340 is even more brutal with full-power .357 Magnum. -- Massad Ayoob
</div></div>

Brian in WY
04-23-2003, 12:44 PM
Thanks everyone for the great info, as usual. Keep it comin if anyone has some more.

Patrick:
Love the look of the re-designed web site.

Well off to the turkey hills I go (weekend journey of course). "here mr. meriam" /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Brian

posimag
04-23-2003, 05:06 PM
Hi Patrick, 329 PD is not one I could see getting in a normal size pocket. Recoil from the full power load would be too much for me to handle. I think I would like to try it just for the heck-of-it.
I have a new Jerry's hunting catalog that just came in the mail today, they are showing the 329 in the flyer with a price that will turn most toward the 44 special, Taurus Model 445TI total titanium. At $200.00 less than the Smith and full power 44 special loads being all that I would be able to handle, the Taurus makes it to my list as???.
Hi 7MMSTW, I have not shot the 329 but I think I will be looking forword to that day. The Jerry's catalog is showing a (wood and Hogue Square butt rubber grips), is not clear if the grip has both rubber and wood in the grip as I have on one of my TC Contenders.
Have not seen if the Smith has a ported barrel, from what I have seen it does not.

Ed C
04-23-2003, 08:27 PM
I really like those little guns. A guy can't have too many. Might have to go to the gun store and have a look.
Ed

04-24-2003, 06:24 PM
329 is specifically what I was refering too. But load that 300 grain WFN to 800 fps you still have great penetration for most anything you may encounter but even in that light weight package it is manageable. I think that there are reloaders that reload a light load heavy cast bullet for many of the larger calibers.

Now the 41 mag; I shot an Elk two years ago up by Meeker and I can tell you the 41 is one nice caliber. Even with heavy loaded 250 grain WFN loaded over the max load of H110 (out of the 657 7.5" bbl S&amp;W) it bounced off the spine of the that big bull elk and a lucky shot from 125 yards striaght down the mounatin side I brained him but the first shot only slowed him a little. For moose much better choices out there.

As far light weight packing gun I will take the Kimber Ultra Carry. for hunting with a handgun that is an entirely different matter and I would choose the venerable 44 mag or 475 Linebaugh both loaded with WFN hard cast bullets medium velocity the 325 grain XTP at the upper limit in the Linebaugh is darn effective as well.

William Clunie
04-25-2003, 12:59 AM
OOPS! In my previous reply I called the Taurus I was interested in a "Hunter". It is the "Tracker". You all know what I meant. Good luck in the search for the ultimate carry.
I my experience, if it is a heavy peice, it gets left behind sometimes. That is not good! It just might be the time you need it the most. Lighter is better because you won't mind carrying it. And in the power department, bigger is better. So what if it hurts your hand when you shoot it, it will drop what ever is coming at you. Deader is better.

pointer
04-27-2003, 08:39 AM
For those interested: Taurus Ti 45LC $389!
Impact Guns- Taurus Ti 45 LC (http://www.impactguns.com/store/taurus_450t.html)

CCH
04-28-2003, 09:38 AM
Not to go against the revolver crowd, but I carry a Glock 29 in 10mm for that purpose (and others). Durable, lightweight and much easier to shoot than an ultralight revolver. 24 oz. empty. 200 grain FMJ flat points at 1200 f.p.s. seem adequate since I don't hunt with it. Much easier to shoot than my S&amp;W 60 3" .357. Used to pack a Blackhawk .41 that was pretty nice, but the Glock almost disappears on my hip.

04-28-2003, 10:35 AM
My only experience with a pistol is a 9mm German Luger taken off an officer in WWII. Jammed from time to time. Also had a very funny balance. Do Glocks jam occasionally? I can imagine that things have changed in half a century but I really have no experience.

Stan
04-28-2003, 01:12 PM
Chris,

I have a Glock 10mm as well and really enjoy shooting it. You probably pack yours around more than me - which holster (s) do you prefer for hiking? Not as many choices for this pistol as others.

David, Glocks are incredibly smooth and mine has never jammed. Not really a "woods looking gun" for some, but pretty darn dependable.

Stan

Patrick
04-28-2003, 01:56 PM
Stan--

You must be planning to tote that Glock more often. We just received your fax Order for the retrofit pistol holster strap to mount on your aged SpikeCampII.

04-28-2003, 05:09 PM
Patrick,

Well, I'm truly impressed by how you keep on top of all the doings there at Kifaru! Been meaning to get one of those straps for quite some time. Also now painfully ruminating over all this great discussion of super lightweight bear guns that bite both ways. .44?, .41?, 10mm?, .357?, titanium?, scandium?, what's next? - a 10 oz .44 made out of Kryptonium? What's a feller to do???

Patrick
04-28-2003, 08:17 PM
Stan--

Well, I'm really not that on top of things. It's been so long since we have done one of these retro straps (all current packs have 'em built in) that staff came to me to find out how to do one. Of course I saw right away who it was that ordered it...especially as the fax was from Peru!

Your Glock is a genuine 10mm, right? Wasn't the big ten designed to pretty much duplicate the 41 Mag., but in a semi-auto format? Methinks you guys who tote those tens are pretty well armed. Plenty of quick firepower too, eh? I bumped into a fellow fishing up on the Penninsula in AK a while back; his bear medicine was a ten. Said he had some warm fuzzy feelings about it. My own rig was a .350 Rem. Mag in a GunBearer...I felt even warmer and fuzzier than he did. But, again, it's all relative to always, always having it with you. Hence this great discussion on small firebreathers.

Stan
04-29-2003, 10:09 AM
Patrick,

Yep, genuine 10. People who have experience with the 10mm seem to either love it or think it is just another .41, so why have it? I think I've read was designed by the FBI, but found to be too much for some agents. With pre-ban magazines ( I won't tell you how much I paid for mine - gulp!), having more than 10, more or less .41 mag-equivalent rounds available for "rapid deployment" is significant. I have to admit I first got jazzed about the Glock 10 after reading about Ted Nugent's exploits with the gun ( I am ashamed that I thought for so long he was just another screaming idiot rock star!)! Anyway, the Glock is smooth, accurate and loads of fun to shoot.

Patrick
04-29-2003, 10:39 AM
Stan--

The tens' only drawback, vis-a-vis a .41 mag, is that I doubt it can be loaded with 250gr. solids and the slide function properly. That's a big drawback for the task we're speaking to here, frankly. However, you CAN fling a lot of lead with it, which perhaps re-balances things a bit.

Anybody had any success loading 250WFN projectiles in a ten?

Stan
04-29-2003, 11:18 AM
Patrick,

But are you thinking of a cross-threaded run-in with a rare old Emphram or do you believe the 250 gr solids are a requirement for dealing for an unruly oso negro? Personally I think good 200 grain bullets are fine for black bears. If you say better to be prepared for anything, I'd agree though.

Patrick
04-29-2003, 05:29 PM
Stan--

I was indeed thinking of griz. And that is beyond the ken of the original parameters set for this discussion. Sorry. Ergo, a blizzard of 200gr. bullets launched from that 10mm should be fine for ol' Mr. Black. (A mite heavy and large though, compared to the little 41 revolvers.) But, still, there is this...SOME black bears are as big as grizzlies!!!

Somebody...talk to us about what handloads CAN be reliable for this task in the 10mm. 220's? How about flat nose solids in heavier-than-200grains? I don't own a 10mm; always kind of hankered for one tho.

Sundles
04-29-2003, 05:42 PM
The trick with black bears is to turn them, not necessarily kill them. My neighbor turned a large boar that decided to eat him--he did it with a Ruger single six 22LR. Took all six shots, but the bear walked off "grumbling". Otherwise my friend would have most likely been bear dinner. You can turn blackies, but you would probably have a much harder time turning griz.

It is hard to beat the Glcok in 10MM or in 45ACP with +P ammo and hard ball. The 10MM holds 16 rounds and the 45 holds 14. They are very light weight and reliable. The Glocks definately have an edge should you need to take on multiple two legged black bears. Reloading the Glock with its magazines is also very fast. Of course if you go through all 16 of those 10MM's and need more in a hurry, something isnt working out too well for you on that particular day.

Ive seen black bears killed with all sorts of guns/cartridges. For hunting (different than turning) them with a hand gun, the 454 Casull is where my choices start and usualy I use (I've shot several bear with handguns and 500's in particular) a 500 Linebaugh. Seems about adequate to me.

04-29-2003, 09:21 PM
My grandfather worked for a packing outfit in the Sierras. He packed most of the trails in and between Yosemite Park and Kings Canyon. This was back in the forties when things were not so strict. The superintendent for the rangers at Yosemite called him into his office and set a box of 38 ammo on his desk. He told my grandfather that there were too many bears in the park. Then he walked out of the room. He knew my grandfather always carried a 38 on the trail. My grandfather killed 17 bear that year with the 38 while on the trail. Like I said, things were not so strict in the parks then. Nevertheless I would never recommend the 38 for old blackie. I think the 41 is great. I never considered the 10.

04-30-2003, 06:41 AM
10 is great especially in the Glock I used for two years deer hunting with a drop in 6" barrel and loaded with Hornady XTP's.

A +P 40 S&amp;W is not that far behind though and I opted for that in the stainless Ultra Caryy Kimber because you can buy 40 SW brass for $14.00/1000 Laser Casst bullets for a song and using my cheap Lee progressive loader can whip out several hundred rounds of practice rounds in and hour. The point being practice with An Auto willmake you effective in any situatioif train for it. For defense in the woods or otherwise the Federal Premium personal defense AMMO is a good choice but if in Yogi's country I choose the heaviest hottest loaded cast bullet that will feed releiably and shoot accurately.

I love the ease of carry of the Glock or the Kimber or any of the 1911 slim guns. Again do not forget the 460 Rowland if you want great firepower in subcompact the 460 Rowland is like a compact semi-auto with the power or close to the powe of 44 most 45 can be converted and commercial ammo is available.

Sundles
04-30-2003, 09:19 AM
Stan,

Received your order today. Thankyou. The bumper stickers are on me. Your order will ship out tomorrow.

Stan
04-30-2003, 09:28 AM
Thank you Tim! So, when are you going to crank out some "10mm on steroids" loads?

Stan

Brian in WY
04-30-2003, 10:42 AM
Well when I started this thread my thoughts were to replace my Glock 20 in 10mm with the little Ti. Taurus in 357. or 41. mag.

Per the Glock web site;
Glock-20 in 10mm =
27.68 oz empty no mag
empty mag. = 2.64 oz
full mag = 11.46 oz +/-
So in the field with 10 rounds (post ban mag) I carry 39.14 oz on my hip. I use a DeSantis holster I picked up from a cop shop in Loveland, CO. It has the two seperate loops for your belt which doesn't let it rock on your belt. This sunday I carried it on the built-in belt on my long hunter, while I chased merriams. Although it's not the heaviest I have carried,,, BUT,,, I think it would be nicer to carry the Taurus.

Per Taurus;
Tracker Total Ti. 41 mag 4"port barrel 24.3 oz.
So if someone would be king enough to weigh 5 rounds of 41. then we would know the loaded carry weight.

Also per the Federal Ammo web site the 41. mag really out performs my 10mm.
41. mag 210 gr hydrashock = 680 ftlbs @25 yards
10mm. 180 gr hydrashock = 400 ftlbs @25 yards

I know these two rounds have different bullet weights, but I am forced to use this info due to the fact I am stuck using factory loads (no reloader YET!). So if you can't find a bigger factory load for the 10mm then I would be more apt to choose the 41. mag. Federal has a 41. with 250 gr castcore hitting with 759 lbs @ 25 yards.

Thanks again everyone for the input. And sorry for the long post.

Brian

Sundles
04-30-2003, 12:43 PM
Brian,

<a href="http://www.buffalobore.com" target="_blank">http://www.buffalobore.com (http://www.buffalobore.com)</a> has a couple 41 Mag. loads that generate over 1,000 Ft. Lbs. of energy with heavy hard cast bullets. (a 365gr. and a 230gr.)

Stan,

Someday we will make commercial 10mm ammo, but it will be over a year from now.

Levi
04-30-2003, 04:39 PM
Sundles, can the Taurus Titanium 41 magnum hold up to your 265 grain loads? I'm not talking about heavy use...just enough to get it sighted in, and then laying low in the cylinder while I go hiking through griz country with some peace of mind. Thanks!
Levi

Sundles
04-30-2003, 09:07 PM
Levi,

No problem with the Taurus Ti holding up to our 265 or 230gr. loads.

Tim

elmbow
04-30-2003, 10:17 PM
Sundles, I just figured out you're BBAC. Do you sell bullets only? I shoot a custom Vaquero and like a 325 Gr LBT at about 1000fps as my tuned in all purpose load. I have been casting that new Lyman but am not happy with it and really don't want to buy a custom mould, plus I just don't have time to cast like I used to. I have looked at Beartooth but no way am I going to wait six months for cast bullets!
We can carry this conversation over to your commercial side if you want.
Elmbow

Patrick
05-01-2003, 05:45 AM
Tim (Sundles)--

Remembering that your .480 ammo outperformed the competition in my Ruger, I just might have to try some of your 265gr. .41 stuff, now that you've cleared it for use in the little Taurus revolvers. I'll give you a ring. I probably should see if you have any more of that 410gr. 480 stuff around too. Terrific performer, that load.

Sundles
05-01-2003, 05:59 AM
Elmbow,

We only sell loaded ammo. Try Hunters supply at 800-868-6612 for a great plain base 325gr. hard cast bullet--it is accurate in a wide variety of revolvers. Also try Cast Performance bullet co. at 307-857-2940 for a good Gas Checked 335gr. or a plain base 325 gr. Please tell them I sent you. Hope this helps.

Tim

Sundles
05-01-2003, 06:10 AM
Patrick,

I have plenty of ammo here just waiting for you. I owe you for the great 12 man tipi. (still using my 12 year old Mt. Smith tipi, BTW)

If I were you, I would try the 230gr. 41 mag. as well, just to see wich one runs better in your particular gun. They will both penetrate forever and your gun is bound to exhibit a preference for one or the other. Im out of the 410gr. 480 Ruger ammo right now, but if you want to call me, I'll get you on the list for some. It will be ready in a month or so. Better get a good supply stocked up for the future.

Speaking of tents. My 12 man was just torn up (by a new horse my wife bought) while I was bear hunting down the salmon river. (we shot a beautiful large boar that was golden/cinnamon with a whhite patch on his chest) If I had any brains I would simply quit storing the grain in the tent--DUH! Am I better off sending the tent to you for repair or should I get some of the material from you and patch it myself using that 30+ year silicone? I patched the 8 man the same way and it worked great. So let me know please. Look forward to hearing from you again.

Patrick
05-01-2003, 12:19 PM
Sundles--

I'll give you a ring, when I get a break. Gotta talk about that bear! Send the tipi on in...I reckon Janice can do a better job patching it up! And in case I forget when we talk, yes, put me on that list for some more 410gr. 480 ammo. Great stuff; half the group size of the competition and penetrates forever. And my Ruger is sighted in for it. If Buffalo Bore stuff shoots as well in my little Taurus, I might just have to sneak up on something big (hog?) to prove as fact (compared to theory) what it'll do. Be a good off-season adventure don't you think? Hey, got any pig hunting up that way?...been a while since we shared a tipi.

Sundles
05-01-2003, 01:00 PM
Patrick,

I'll send the tent in with a couple boxes of 41 mag. ammo for you to try. It's gonna kick like hell out of that little revolver. Let me know which load your gun prefers and I'll send some more of it along.

That bear was about 10-12 years old and although Ive shot larger boars, he was still almost a 7 footer and the color is what really makes him outstanding. My friend from Texas did the actual shooting as I have killed many more bears than I even remember and this was to be his first bear. He used a Winchester Featherwieght 06 with 180gr. Sierra flat base spitzers at 2,800FPS at the muzzle. The distance was 210 yards. One shot one kill. Prettiest bear Ive ever seen.

Sundles
05-01-2003, 01:19 PM
Patrick,

I forgot to answer your question about pigs. We dont get them around here. I think the winters are too cold for them. But if you want to come bear hunting next spring, I would be happey to take you to some great spots. We kill lots of bear every year. If we go into the Middle Fork wilderness (where my friend from Texas killed his bear) we will likely see bear every day.

BTW, we had wolf sign all around us while we were bear hunting. Saw a large pack.

Stan
05-01-2003, 02:54 PM
Brian and others interested in the 10mm,

Don't forget that Glock makes the Model 29, a smaller and lighter 10mm.

Barrel: 3.78"
Overall length: 6.77
Height: 4.45"
Weight empty without mag: 24.69 oz
Weight full 10 rd magazine: approx 8.29 oz.

05-01-2003, 05:56 PM
Elbow-

Laser Cast has great LWFN 355 grain 480/475 cast bullet gas checked used in my 475 Linebaugh Rifle No 1 Ruger this year loaded to 1300 FPS 3 deer hit went 25 feet dropped over the best 100 yrad 3 shot groups I have ever shot from that rifle with the 14 grains of Unique and the Laser Cast 355 grain bullet.

05-02-2003, 05:11 AM
Here is the link o that bullet i mentioned above great bullets for hunting very consitent.

http://www.trueshotbullets.com/bullet_info.html#20

CCH
05-22-2003, 11:47 AM
Stan,

Currently use a Blade-Tech holster for my 29. It is adjustable for forward cant, straight or crossdraw and their tek-lok system allows it to attach easily to various sized belts. With the new CCW laws I just ordered one of their IWB holsters for more discrete carry. They also offer a drop style holster that would probably hang just below the belt of a backpack as well as a "tactical" holster that straps to your thigh. Although I like lightweight, using a good holster makes a big difference in how much you notice a gun on your belt (that includes having a good stiff belt). I like the Glock because it is compact, durable and easy to shoot. I have not shot a 24 oz. .41 mag with 250 grain bullets and have no desire to. They weren't bad in a 38 oz. Blackhawk but dropping 3/4 lb. in gun weight doesn't sound comfortable to my wimpy hands. Don't believe a black bear at close range will notice much difference between that and a 200 grain FJP at 1200 fps and would much prefer the Glock for human defense which I view as a more likely problem to face than a problem bear. If I were concerned about grizzlies, I'd carry my .45-70 Guide Gun or a heavy loaded .45 Colt or larger. Nothing would seem too large for that application. Here in Colorado, the 10 seems to be plenty as long as you aren't hunting with it. Big caveat... I've never had to shoot anything with the ten so this is all hypothetical.

Chris

Stan
05-23-2003, 06:30 AM
Thanks Chris. Recently picked up a Bianchi military holster (UM84II?) - they make a wide body version for the Glock and others, which works great for general hiking. You can use with or without cover flap. Pretty rugged. Would not be for a discreet carry situation, though.

drwarner
05-23-2003, 08:06 AM
I carry a Glock 36. It's a 45cal, light, very accurate, holds 6 in rounds in the mag with one in the chamber, 2 clips in the other side of the shoulder holster, but most of all---very reliable (fires under any conditions) and the safety is in the trigger (if you get in a very tight fix, no safety to fumble with or forget to release) and with night sites, it's good round the clock. I don't leave home without it--whether hunting or not.

Greg
05-23-2003, 02:33 PM
Check out rbcd.net. They have some ammo you won't beleive. I have a Glock 23 40S&amp;W and use their Tactical round. It is only 77gr. and travels at 2300 fps and has 800ft.lbs energy. It is by far the most accurate ammo I have shot out of my Glock. It penetrates about 10" and has a cavity of 12" when shot into clay blocks. It will penetrate through car doors, sheet rock, bone, etc. and will not come apart until it enters a water based substance, i.e. muscle and tissue. Then it does it's job without the fear of over penetration. it is a by-metal bullet with no hollow point. They even make hunting rounds. They offer a 10mm round at 77gr. 2420 fps, 1015 ft. lbs. energy. They also offer a 44 mag., 454 casull, .308 win. and so on. Not only is it powerful, it makes for a lighter weight gun to.