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Oz
04-02-2003, 01:23 AM
Hi Patrick and all, this will be short as its late. Saw in our local paper yesterday that Congress is working on trying to ban all bear baiting on federal lands everywhere, so those of you that live in states that still allow it, let your Representatives know how you feel about it. This may be better for the political board but not everyone goes there. It can certainly be moved, just wanted to give you all a heads up. I haven't been on here for a while, just catching up and don't find the site as friendly as it used to be I suppose. Patrick, I suppose you are in Anchorage as I post, wish I was coming down for the show, it's a week early- I'm headed to Kodiak on the 15th and will be through ANC on the 13th or so. Will be on the island chasing bruins on MY permit this time, for me and not someone else. Got lucky and drew last year!! So it's time to hunt, I'll keep you posted on our results- R&R is going with me and we'll be there for 16 days. Too much fun, talk to you later, Oz

Ed C
04-02-2003, 08:07 AM
Oz

Good luck on your bear hunt. Don't abandon the boards, your imput would be missed. I am financially unable to hunt sheep or brown bear since I'm not a resident of Alaska. So the next best thing is hearing about you and R&R's exploits, and all the other Sourdoughs as well. Again good luck shoot straight and all like that.

Ed

buck
04-02-2003, 08:15 AM
This may be a dumb question but...what is their reasoning to ban all types of bear hunting or is it just banning hunting with dogs??

bb

Sgathak
04-02-2003, 10:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Congress is working on trying to ban all bear baiting </div></div>Sounds good to me...

bigbore442001
04-02-2003, 01:02 PM
If Congress bans all bear hunting with baits, that will be the start of the end of bear hunting in New Hampshire and Maine. The northeast is too thick and brushy to hunt effectively by spot and stalk. Bait or dogs are the most effective means.

The problem is that rules are being made by people who have no clue.

In Massachusetts, you cannot hunt bear over bait or use dogs. The effect is a growing bear population which is causing a lot of problems with people and the decrease of the harvest.Also, the success rate for getting a bear is around 2% or less. It almost isn't worth it to make a trip. I do know that a number of bear were taken over illegal baits. A lot of people who don't know anything about bear hunting think that baiting or using dogs is unethical. Not so. It is the most practical method.

Ed C
04-02-2003, 01:59 PM
bigbore

You are right on with that. Western Washington has the largest population of black bear in the lower 48, also the most bunny kissing tree hugging yuppies. They banned dogs and bait a few years ago. The hunters didn't get out and vote or campain. Like you said it's impossible to hunt too thick. I've been thinking about calling as in predator. We have a long season and bag limit of 2, but odds are about zilch. Now the state brings in hounds to control problem bears and cougars. The cougars are causing a lot of problems, because they are no longer hunted with hounds. I'm going to try to walk one down next winter. Beats sitting at home I guess. Best of luck back East. Don't let em do it.

Ed

Sgathak
04-02-2003, 03:48 PM
You could also just learn to be a better hunter.

buck
04-02-2003, 03:57 PM
Sgathak,

Thanks for pointing out the baiting, not hunting (Duh).
I just logged in to question you on ethics when your post popped up about "being a better hunter"--so that answers part of it.....
I'm not picking a fight here; I am legitamately interested......Where do you, personally, draw the line on what's ethical or not. I mean, in general, with all types of hunting. Is there an obvious rule on killing or can you see that, in the end, it's killing. Or is it the killing that's the issue. Man to man here.

BB

Ed C
04-02-2003, 04:24 PM
I'm posting areply on the political board.
Ed

Sgathak
04-02-2003, 06:21 PM
It was mostly a tounge in cheek statment, however I think that baiting is just lazy.

If your willing to kill an animal, I think you at least owe it a bit more than a tip of the hat before you pull the trigger. Get off you butt, go look... study them, learn their patterns, track them, see what they do...

I rarely hunt, but when I do, I hunt a SINGLE animal if at all possible... If I can, I localize an animals range and spend as much time as I can studying that animal... I know its favorite spots to eat, sleep, and crap. Last year I tracked a mamma and cubs for 4 months. I tracked her and glassed her from a half mile out... eventually was within 100 yards and stayed there for 3 days. I know here prefered stomping grounds, and her cub(s) (one died)

Im not out to just go kill something, Im out to learn, grow, and be in the world. If all I wanted to do was bait some dumb animal, I can set a mouse trap and lie in nervous trepedation.

Sgathak
04-02-2003, 06:31 PM
Just one point... I never did take that bear, when the time came, the kill wasnt very interesting anymore and my cupboards were full.

I have no problem with hunting,
Hell, I once went hunting for boar with a spear! Death is the completion of a cycle and I have no delusions about that... but that doesnt mean Im going to go kill all willy nilly either.

Im just as content to hunt with a camera as I am with a rifle, shotgun, or bow.

But like I said, baiting is just lazy... To me it seems like nothing more than canning your own hunts.

Seriously, with all due respect to anyone who may answer, whats the difference?

Sgathak
04-02-2003, 06:41 PM
Last point... I think dogs are fine for hunting. If you think you need the edge, more power to ya. Russo-European Lajka and Plott Hounds will nail ya a bear.

In some places in Russia, where they breed the REALLY good Lajka, other breeds arnt even allowed in the town. They take their dogs really seriously and they have some MEAN bears on the Eastern side of te Urals. IF!*! I can wrangle the cash I might even get to go bear hunting just north of Lake Baikal this summer.

The hunting itself I have no issues with.

pointer
04-02-2003, 07:00 PM
Ed C- Walking/calling cats up can be done. There's a guy from WA who posts on another board who has made a passion out of it after a cat killed one of his pack goats. He got one for another hunter this past fall that went 190# with an empty stomach!!! Here's a link to the story:

Big Cat (http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB5&amp;Number=117038&amp;page=&amp;v iew=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1)

Tim in Nevada
04-02-2003, 08:30 PM
Just curious, does anybody know how many deer fawns and elk calves a bear eats in a year?

buck
04-02-2003, 08:38 PM
Tim,
If you are being sarcastic then I have a question for you: What do you care about, because your answers are often short and smart-allecky?

If not then sorry I misjudged.

bb

Tim in Nevada
04-02-2003, 08:46 PM
Buck, it was a question to anyone that has an answer, I care because I am going to kill one just to save a few elk in an area I like to hunt. It sounds like you might need to re-read the post. I thought it was pretty straight forward, short, yes, and smart-allecky, no more than yours. Tim

buck
04-02-2003, 08:53 PM
Tim,

Ok, I was wrong. I thought you were paralleling the "great wolf debate" and making fun of the subject here.
Ed-C has already taken me wrong and been offended and I want to help both Ed and Oz to bring some peace to outdoor sporting by helping people to understand that we have no right to judge others ethics.
I'm still interested in what you care about. What type of hunting do you do and what's you outlook on things?

BB

Danner
04-02-2003, 09:14 PM
Ed C I got out 4-6 times this winter I find timing to be every thing, I would go out after fresh snow fall. There are alot of cats around, most the time you can cut tracks in a couple of miles. I might think of getting a snowmobile just to save time so you don't waste time and energy walking on older tracks. I was working on Chinook pass a couple winters ago a guy came by our equipment and was hunting cats by riding a snowmobile till fresh tracks were cut, then he would set up a preditor call.

Oz
04-03-2003, 12:14 AM
Wow! I sure didn't mean to stir up this hornets nest but its a hot topic. Lets move it to the political board I guess. To all that replied, thanks, and for your kind words Ed, I appreciate it. I'll need to say one thing here to enlighten those in the dark on baiting. First, how is baiting bears any different than using scents for deer, scents &amp; lures for trapping, or the cologne some of you studs must wear to be able to get even remotely close to some sweet thing after you've been in the woods too long? I don't see much difference there at all. Secondly, I've spent countless hours over the past 30 years roaming the hills here in Alaska and generally have seen very few bears unless I was in very open country with minimal brushy areas. One good bait station can enable you to see a lot of individual bears, be VERY selective about which bear you take if you so choose, and if anyone thinks hunting over bait is a lazy mans game, I guess they've never set up a good station, hauled the materials in by snowmachine or boat, kept it stocked with bait, dismantled it after the season was over, and cleaned up the mayhem a bunch of bears can cause! My alltime favorite way of bear hunting is spot and stalk, but it's just tough in brush country, no matter what, to even find a bear. I have a few great places to hunt by spotting and they take almost no effort to throw a little gear together and go glass, compared to the bait. Lastly- moose calves saved by taking a bear out of the equation- ADF&amp;G figures that bears-both black and grizzly-take at least 50% of the newborn calf production, probably more. Wolves get their share too, but bears get more, especially where concentrations are high. Enough on this I guess, just another THANKS GUYS!!! I'll keep you informed on our progress. Shoot straight, Oz

04-03-2003, 09:03 AM
Danner, where on Chinook Pass? The Normile Grade is generally closed to 'biling, not to mention it slides frequently. If he's poaching runs up there, well, he better be careful, hope he doesn't have kids! Maybe he came in from Cayuse Pass? But even the road route is not safe on that side. See Rainer Burgdorfer's book for the slide paths. I get pretty freaked out just going up Morse Creek w/ the dogs. Big terrain trap in that valley with some nasty convex S. facing slopes below Bear Gap. Not a good place to be at noon on a sunny winter day. Gene Prater has mentioned it as a highly unstable area as well, in one of his books.

That Chinook Pass sure does get big dumps.

Happy Trails

Danner
04-03-2003, 08:06 PM
David Lowry the area I was refering to was just east the actual pass around Gold creek or Whistling Jacks around December on logging roads.

Danner
04-03-2003, 08:06 PM
David Lowry the area I was refering to was just east the actual pass around Gold creek or Whistling Jacks around December on logging roads.

Danner
04-03-2003, 08:06 PM
David Lowry the area I was refering to was just east the actual pass around Gold creek or Whistling Jacks around December on logging roads.

VernAK
04-04-2003, 06:32 AM
:rolleyes:

Geez Oz, I've never known you to be such a lightening rod. It must be the war that has everyone on edge.

Keep us posted on your Kodiak hunt....those big bears can really make for an exciting hunt.... best of luck..... What is the hip boot of choice for Kodiak at this time?

Here in Delta, black bear baiting has about ceased as the black bear population is very low. Grizzly bears have displaced the blacks. Speaking of bait, I often check local oat fields in late summer....where I once saw black bears, I now see grizzlys....often 3-4 in a field. These can't be hunted in summer nor baited legally....unless you want to call your oatfield bait....resident tag fees have been waived in some of our area to reduce grizzly population but I doubt if it will help.

Nevada Dan
04-05-2003, 07:26 PM
Pointer, ...Just wanted to say "thanks" for the cat link. I found the skull/teeth measurment comparisons to some of the african species interesting.
-Dan

Oz
04-07-2003, 10:45 PM
Hi Vern, good to hear from you. Never aspired to be a lightning rod! Too much heat for me. Hip boot of choice for this foray seems to be some dry plus waders and boots from Cabelas. Dealing with a Zodiac in the ocean can be a wet proposition in any case so we'll try them. I've used some Gore-Leak waders in the past for hunting/hiking around, and they weren't bad. They also got the nod due to weight, about half or less than the Lacrosse hippers. BTW- Randy got a new set of Lacrosse hippers last week and says they are now made in China, and with a noticeable quality change. Too bad, they were good gear. Hey, if you feel the need for a black bear let me know, I'll probably do another station after Kodiak. Heck I may have to drop in on you and clobber an oatfield griz just to help out the population reduction program and to keep a few more moose calves from biting the dust. Thanks, all for now, Oz

bigbore442001
04-08-2003, 03:43 AM
Oz:

I found your post very interesting about the Lacrosse hip boots. Too bad that so much stuff is being made in China. I too have noticed that the goods coming in are of a lower quality yet aren't cheaper. It is a real shame.

Oz
04-13-2003, 12:56 AM
Big Bore, Its a good thing we build our military hardware in house for the most part, or who knows what we'd get! Too much China and other off shore stuff washing up on our store shelves for sure. Fortunately the optics arena flies in the face of all this for the most part. Outta here for Kodiak tomorrow. See ya on the return, Oz