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Reid
02-22-2011, 03:08 AM
I'm planning my first solo archery elk hunt 1 full day (7-8 hours hiking) into wilderness area. Not my first time hunting the area, done that plenty of times, on foot and on horseback, just always had a hunting partner with me...this will he my first solo trip...

Elevation is often above 11,500. So I work hard at this elevation being a flatlander, no matter how much P90X training I do, I pay extra. So my gear needs an expensive diet.

Current set up:
1) G2 Long Hunter
2) 4 Man with netting permanently sewn in
3) Med Stove

Proposed set up Options:
1) New UL 5200 + 4 Man + New Small Stove
2) New UL 5200 + New Sawtooth + New Small Stove
3) New UL 5200 + New ParaTipi + New Small Stove

Naturally option 3 saves the most weight but as a soloist I can be honest in saying I might feel closterphobic alone in the ParaTipi, so I'm thinking option 2 may also save me weight but enout weight over my beloved 4 Man that I already own? Perhaps I Need not be a wimp about it and act like the man I am and jump into the ParaTipi and give myself better range and hunt energy.

Opinions from those who solo are appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your sincere thoughts!

P.S. I did get one of the fancy DeLorme GPS with Spot so I can let my wife know I'm ok or to call for help of needed. Oh and yes I really do plan to shoot an elk, I have before after all, and will call (text on my fancy GPS) for the horses to help me extract the game before my vacation time runs out or the meat spoils with me making many solo trips to pack it out....

Ken
02-22-2011, 04:55 AM
Option 4: KU5200, Supertarp/Annex, Small stove.

If the weather is nice, take off the Annex and prop up one corner for a room with a view, while still knocking back the chill with the stove.

Reid
02-22-2011, 05:22 AM
Interesting thought. I do already own a ParaTarp, I could get an Annex for that. I used my ParaTarp for gear storage on a 2 week trip I took North of the Brooks Range. 3 Guys in my 4 man and the gear in the ParaTarp. It was bombproof in all weather. Our gear was dry after two weeks of wet weather. When we broke camp the gravel bar was dusty under the ParaTarp. I guess god enough to keep me dry....

Do you get cramped up in it with wet gear? I can imagine wet gear in the rain makes for less than comfort...

Ken
02-22-2011, 05:54 AM
It will be tight trying to get everything dry while in the ST. The Sawtooth will be much better at that.

mgutman
02-22-2011, 08:07 AM
I think it really depends on your general backcountry philosophy. Are you a minimalist and ounce fanatic, i.e. do ounces trump comfort or are you okay giving up some weight for comfort? I have a super tarp and a sawtooth. I found that being able to move around, have some space and stand up while exiting /entering saves me quite a bit of energy and PMA. So, now my ST is more of a bivy shelter and Sawtooth always gets the call - solo or with a partner. Plus, looks like you're gong with a KU pack. Justify all that weight savings by brining a palace of a solo shelter. It's not like either option is "heavy". :)

I also think how you hunt -- are you moving camp every day or setting camp and heading out from there? - factors into the decision. If I was pitching every night I may consider the ST. Good luck!

DWP
02-22-2011, 01:06 PM
What time of year?

I don't have one yet,but for my Sept. elk hunting a Supertarp would be the most that I need. Ease of set-up/breakdown is important if you are staying mobile. If you are setting up a base camp then comfort may trump that.

I am sure that a Supertarp w/ annex would suffice for Sept. A stove would help later in the year, though.

sab
02-22-2011, 01:12 PM
Reid:

Good call on the PN-60w! I used one on a solo 7-day muley hunt in NM this past November, and it was very nice to be able to send text messages; however, it was tough to keep them below the max character limit. I wouldn't do solo hunts without some sort of beacon. Life is too much fun to not take that little bit of precaution...

Scott

Reid
02-22-2011, 02:12 PM
Really hard for me to decide. Yes Sept (last two weeks of season). Beacon is a must for me to stay married. She's aged better than me, so we'll go with the the beacon and be glad I'm not toting a heavy Sat Phone!

Perhaps I should test out a solo trip in my Paratarp to see how that goes. I have some mosquito netting I suppose I could talk a talented dress maker (named Mother) who might fab me up an annex to keep the bugs out, I live in Michigan, and the spring Mosquito's are as bad as Bristol Bay Alaska IMHO having lived both places.

I'm beginning to edge to the Sawtooth since I can use that as my 2 person, and perhaps sell my beloved 4 man and pick up a 6 man Tipi that affords groups of 3 more space than my 4 man...Humm now I might be onto something.

Anyhow good idea to test out my Paratarp on a rainy spring weekend soon. My guess is I hate it and get a Sawtooth because I'm now so used to the room in a 4 man for two people. Who knows perhaps with the killer weight savings of the new UL 5200 coupled with a Small Stove VS my Med Stove and I cut 6 lbs out of my current rig right off the bat...what's another 1.5 lbs to carry the roomy 4 man over the Sawtooth? Save the nice stand up height of the Sawtooth.

See, Patrick really does use his gear, and he knows how to make the improvements that matter to us who notice...

6.8 lbs for a ParaTipi and Small Stove is hard to beat though....

Yeah Still undecided....

davesuvak
02-22-2011, 03:57 PM
Reid,

I have a ParaTipi/small stove and compared to a standard 2-man backpacking tent it is palatial. But I have a hunting buddy who thinks it's too small for 2 people (I think it works for 2 people but with the stove it is a little tight). I got a great deal for mine on the Trading Post but if I was going to do it over again I would buy a Sawtooth. A Sawtooth/Small stove is only about 1.5 lbs heavier than a ParaTipi/Small stove. The Sawtooth is a comfortable 2-man shelter yet is still reasonable for going solo. (Weight difference includes 1 lb for the Sawtooth and 1/2 lb for the longer stove pipe).

Dave

Reid
02-22-2011, 04:32 PM
Dave kinda what I've been thinking. Plus I like the idea of being able to toss and turn without rolling into the stove. I'm sure I can find another 1.5 lbs in the rest of my gear, my favorite ram handled Demascus drop point hunter can get a new kydex sheath instead of my leather sheath etc

I'm almost convinced I may even just get a small stove for my 4 man given the 5 lbs I'm shaving on the pack alone....but then 5 could turn into 7 or 8 real quick and think about pulling 8 lbs out of a solo trip! Huge deal!

sab
02-22-2011, 04:34 PM
Reid:

For a September hunt, do you need a stove? I hunted the Gila Wilderness in NM in late October of 2009, and all I used for shelter was a GG SpinnTwinn tarp (10oz!), a TiGoat Ptarmigan bivy (6oz!), and a WM Versalite (2lb 5oz) down bag. At that time, my sleeping pad was a Thermarest ProLite 4 (1lb 11oz), but I've since switched to a Kookabay DAM (1lb 5oz), which is about the same warmth, a bit lighter, but much more comfortable. That puts my current shelter setup at just 5lb 10oz. This is much, much lighter than anything you're looking at, but it all comes down to weather and personal comfort. Last season, I hunted in northern NM in November, and that setup didn't work. It was too cold for my comfort. I ended up base-camping out of a double-wall tent and using two sleeping bags for warmth. My next late season, or high altitude hunt will require a warmer sleeping bag. I've not made the transition to bringing a stove because it's hard for me to justify the weight. However, I don't usually encounter substantial precipitation on my hunts, and the low temps are usually in the high teens/low 20s.

I hope this helps,
Scott

mgutman
02-22-2011, 06:23 PM
I agree. You may not need the stove in September. However, if you do need it, a small is more than enough in a Sawtooth. I ran mine hot in mid November, with 12+ inches of snow and it was toasty. The Sawtooth with no stove is a little more than ST and annex but I think it's worth it. Up to you to decide though.

Reid
02-23-2011, 05:21 PM
Sawtooth worth it from cost perspective or weight perspective or both?

Where i hunt the weather will be, hot, cold, wet (every day at some point), and will snow, perhaps a little or a blizard white out nail you down type snow for a day or so. All the above always happens for past 6 years running...

So stove is my solo piece of mind.

The only worry I have is i was once rescued and hospitalized for high altitude edima. I was on a tight schedule getting to base camp...busines in Detroit, then Alabama, then to Denver slept on inlaws floor, drove 8 hours to hunting spot, loaded team of 6 horses, rode in after dark to be in position to hunt first light....3 bulss bugled at us and our horses all night, next morming hiked at high heart rate for a few hours, no elk, separated from my single partner sent him over the next drainage to hunt for next day, i stayed to hunt local to camp, but spent the whole day in my Tipi with stove going and a blistering headache. Next day friend comes back and i wind up on hospital for 3 days!

Point of story is from then on anytime i burn my stove its both doors open for fresh air, dont know (will never really know) if it was the 2 all nighters to get to camp or the lack of oxygen from burning my stove all day or a combination that set me off, but i could not saddle my own horse to make the trip out, i was dead without my buddy saving me. Im not sure i would like the idea of my stove jammed deep into my Paratipi with no cross vent and the door aways away. I think the Sawtooth offers burnng with door open and stove right there.

More i think about it more i like the idea of Sawtooth or using my 4 man. I guess same option with Annex and my PTarp or STarp just no stand up russtle around room in the Tarps. Does Patric have us spoiled or what?

No matter the choice its all good, and sustainable.

JBR
02-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Reid, I agree with having at least a small stove and something big enuf to have a little room to stretch out and be able to weather out any storms. Last year I did my first archery elk solo trip. I had my 6-man tipi and med stove as backup, but tried using my 1-man Mtn Hrdwr tent only about a mile in. After severe rainstorms and no where to get out of the wwather and heat up, I pulled up stakes and returned to my truck where I set up my 6 man as a basecamp to hunt from. This year I intend on using my 1-man tent with a sil-tarp to provide more cover and be able to make a fire. I may try to find a used paratipi with small stove instead. I plan on heading in much deeper this year and stay mobile with keeping my camp with me as I continue to move, rather than hunt out of a basecamp.

BTW, I have the original SPOT and Delorme's PN-40. They are awesome to say the least. I love the idea of the new SPOT/Delorme PN-60, but since I already have both, I can't justify the new combo at $700 just to be able to send out custom texts (non pre-typed from home) from the field.

I too am looking at the new KU 5200 to switch from my Longhunter Guide with the heavier 1,000 denier cordera (around 8 lbs!). Love the options but I'm looking to try to get dialed in with m ycore backcountry set up and be done with it, but seems to always be evolving.

evanhill
02-24-2011, 11:59 AM
I haven't spent the night in either, but having sat in both a couple of different times, I think the Sawtooth is a more livable 2 person shelter than the 4 man is. The point about whether or not you're moving every night is well taken. I usually feel like it is too much of a PITA to set up a stove on a nightly basis but never seem to regret it when I'm in the same spot 2 nights. Now if you had a stove that didn't require setup, that might be a different matter, but I digress... I also agree with the idea that a stove is a little bit of extra insurance for the solo traveler, or someone who is pushing things in other ways, whether it be pushing hard physically, going light on clothing, or going light on food.

Wanderlustr
02-24-2011, 12:55 PM
I have been going solo for the last 3 years of my elk hunts. I really enjoy the mobility and the ease of deciding when to pull up stakes and try somewhere new on a whim. My locations have been the Cascade in WA and Montana.
I have on order a 5200 and some KU accessories. Dropping 7+#'s does make it tempting to throw a heavier shelter in the pack but that was not my intent in lightening the load.

For solo, I love the Supertarp / annex / stove. I have that at 3#'s. Great solo combo for me.
I can say 2 years ago the stove was not really needed much but this last year the weather was wet and cold. One afternoon I dropped down to a popular camping spot and set up. I had some friends camped near there and I thought it would be fun to BS around a campfire with them that evening. While setting up my camp, 6 more hunters showed up and set up camp on the far side of the lake just as the rain started. A few looked at my camp on their way by and muttered something or other about the stove in there, but I couldn't tell it they liked the idea or not. Anyway.... it blew and it rained and the temps dropped to about freezing that night. At about 5 A.M. I stuffed the stove with wood and tilted my Snow Peak canister stove in the opening for about 30 seconds and had a nice warm tent in less then 5 min. -the same as every other morning. I got my stuff together and headed out for a crack of dawn attempt, even though the weather was nasty and the elk were not playing along with me. When I came back every one camped there was heading home except a couple guys. And as they walked past if they said anything it was usually along the lines of "F#@* this"!
The two guys that stayed were my buddies and they knew I had a 8 man and stove in my truck at the trailhead. They came over and offered to hike 6 miles (round trip) to my truck and bring my 8 man and stove up, if I would let them use it with me. They said they were tired of being wet and cold and there was no way to dry out. And these guys had a big campfire every night and tarp system that covered their entire camp - I hung out with them that one evening and it was nice but still wet and cold.
All this to say - I like my stove and tipi's as a system.
And I know I like my new 5200 and feeling that much more mobile out there.
5242

Enjoy your hunt!

JBR
02-24-2011, 01:02 PM
Wanderlust - I agree with you on all accounts as I too hunt the WA Cascades. I'm wondering what.advantGe the ST w/ annex may have over the paratipi....any thoughts?

mgutman
02-24-2011, 01:02 PM
Sawtooth worth it from cost perspective or weight perspective or both?

The answer is Yes. :) But I was primarily talking about weight and comfort. From my perspective I can talk myself into any cost (and a few more ounces/pounds) if the value of comfort and ultimately my personal well being is at stake. Probably the biggest reason I'm a Kifaru junky and have a bunch of their gear. Also, per JBR's thought, you can cut almost a 1lb off a Long Hunter with the carbon says but those KU packs sure look nice. Your story about getting sick is exactly why I would take the Sawtooth. I just can't imagine myself being holed up in SuperTarp, but I know many on this board feel the ST is gluttony and more than enough shelter.:eek: It really is a personal decision and you're asking the right questions...

I too use a Spot and while not the integrated version, it keeps my wife assured of my safety at home and ensures the support for my adventures. So to me it's a no brainer.

To sum it up, when I'm 5 miles back and in my Sawtooth (or right next to my truck for that matter), and the weather is less than nice, and the stove is going I feel like I'm getting away with something - it is just perfectly comfortable. Let us know what you end up deciding.

Wanderlustr
02-24-2011, 01:09 PM
Wanderlust - I agree with you on all accounts as I too hunt the WA Cascades. I'm wondering what.advantGe the ST w/ annex may have over the paratipi....any thoughts?

the only advantage of a ST over a Paratipi, in my mind, it 1 1/2 pounds less in my pack - also I like the stove being up front.

mgutman
02-24-2011, 01:22 PM
I just can't imagine myself being holed up in SuperTarp, but I know many on this board feel the ST is gluttony and more than enough shelter.:eek: It really is a personal decision and you're asking the right questions...

I was posting this right as Wanderlustr was posting his story. And his post right there shows that that ST can be MORE than enough shelter. Comfort is all in the eye of the beholder? Given dry over wet and warm over cold I would take a smaller shelter than a larger one any day!


I have been going solo for the last 3 years of my elk hunts. I really enjoy the mobility and the ease of deciding when to pull up stakes and try somewhere new on a whim. My locations have been the Cascade in WA and Montana.
I have on order a 5200 and some KU accessories. Dropping 7+#'s does make it tempting to throw a heavier shelter in the pack but that was not my intent in lightening the load.

For solo, I love the Supertarp / annex / stove. I have that at 3#'s. Great solo combo for me.
I can say 2 years ago the stove was not really needed much but this last year the weather was wet and cold. One afternoon I dropped down to a popular camping spot and set up. I had some friends camped near there and I thought it would be fun to BS around a campfire with them that evening. While setting up my camp, 6 more hunters showed up and set up camp on the far side of the lake just as the rain started. A few looked at my camp on their way by and muttered something or other about the stove in there, but I couldn't tell it they liked the idea or not. Anyway.... it blew and it rained and the temps dropped to about freezing that night. At about 5 A.M. I stuffed the stove with wood and tilted my Snow Peak canister stove in the opening for about 30 seconds and had a nice warm tent in less then 5 min. -the same as every other morning. I got my stuff together and headed out for a crack of dawn attempt, even though the weather was nasty and the elk were not playing along with me. When I came back every one camped there was heading home except a couple guys. And as they walked past if they said anything it was usually along the lines of "F#@* this"!
The two guys that stayed where my buddies and they knew I had a 8 man and stove in my truck at the trailhead. They came over and offered to hike 6 miles (round trip) to my truck and bring my 8 man and stove up, if I would let them use it with me. They said they were tired of being wet and cold and there was no way to dry out. And these guys had a big campfire every night and tarp system that covered their entire camp - I hung out with them that one evening and it was nice but still wet and cold.
All this to say - I like my stove and tipi's as a system.
And I know I like my new 5200 and feeling that much more mobile out there.
5242

Enjoy your hunt!


the only advantage of a ST over a Paratipi, in my mind, it 1 1/2 pounds less in my pack - also I like the stove being up front.

+1. In addition, I really like the modularity of the ST. Use it as a 3 sided shelter or use the annex. If you're going back with 4 guys and an 8man use it as a gear shelter, throw in in your pack for a nice bivy option, very versatile.

JBR
02-24-2011, 04:28 PM
Makes sense regarding the ST vs the PT. I do like position of the stove in the ST better and any weight savings is a plus especially for two similar heated shelters. How does the annex attach? Velcro?

Wanderlustr
02-24-2011, 05:06 PM
The peak has a cup that mates with the ST and the pole goes under both . The sides are just staked out tight to the ST - and that works but I wanted a bit more of a seal so I put some snaps on there. A lot guys put some velcro down the sides. And probably most use it as it comes.
5243

Reid
02-24-2011, 07:42 PM
Wow you guys are really kind to take the time to share your real experience to help me understand what you've learned in order that I make a good decision. Thank you!

So a few things mention have raised questions for me...

1) why would you consider the Sawtooth a better 2 Person rig that the 4 man?

2) In wind and rain, how does the ST and Annex hold up while burning stove? Any Reservations?

3) When burnig Stove in Sawtooth or ST do you miss not having cross breeze? How do you manage airflow? With single door only or do you do anything with back area pegging?

4) I'm 5'11" can i sit up comfortably in ST?

I just realized (remembered) tonight that I put a significant bend in the stays of my G2 LH to accomodate my very swayback spine...I hope i can still get my new 5200 with non bending stays set properly...well i cross that bridge when I come to it, worse case i use AL stays I guess.

Ken
02-24-2011, 08:02 PM
The biggest drawback I can see with the Sawtooth for 2 is one guy has to cross the other guys space to get out. With a four man you can slid right out the end of 'your' space.

Two doors are handy as well.

My ST has held up well to the little bit of weather I've had it in. I'm not ever worried to take it.

I've not missed the cross breeze with my Supertarp. The biggest downside with the ST while running the stove is the lack of pipe in the shelter for heat transfer. Cant have it all....

I'm 6-0' and sitting up is fine.

There really is no comparing the ST with the Sawtooth though....they are worlds apart when it come to roominess. The high zipper on the S-tooth is really nice...damn near walk right on in...

Figure out what weight savings you want Vs. how comfy you want it. Seeing how you alreay have the 4-man, I think you should try that with a small stove before you buy anything else. If you don't like it for the hunt, get something new for the next trip.

evanhill
02-24-2011, 08:34 PM
Sage advice from Ken re: the 4-man you already have.

Again, I haven't spent the night in either one, but I think the Sawtooth has a better *usable* space to weight ratio than the 4 man because of the lighter weight combined with more vertical sidewalls.

mountaintrek
02-25-2011, 05:09 AM
The peak has a cup that mates with the ST and the pole goes under both . The sides are just staked out tight to the ST - and that works but I wanted a bit more of a seal so I put some snaps on there. A lot guys put some velcro down the sides. And probably most use it as it comes.
5243

That is a cool pic !

Reid
02-25-2011, 05:41 PM
Mission accomplished!

I think i will get my new 5200 and small stove to augment my 4 man. Done.

At least i know a few things with piece of mind.

1) I trust my 4 man through thick and thin and i have good cross venting considering my previous high altitude sicknes experience

2) I cut 5.62 lbs off my current rig and my pack shelter and heat security now weighs 12.13 lbs.

3) I can cut weight elsewhere to make up some of the difference, leave cargo chair home not sure what that weighs but wont fit on new pack anyhow. I can get another few pounds out.

4) Optics...I like to have my 8x30 and range finder both with me normally, so i think i will finally teach myself to pin gap and shoot 2x the 3D this year and get a new pair of Leica 10x25 Ultravids I've been jonesing for.... Cut another pound there.

Then this summer for ultralight weight i'll get my seamstress to make a misquito net annex to test out my closterphobia for next years hunt.

Thanks guys! You really helped me!

I appreciate your kindness...

JBR
02-25-2011, 07:59 PM
Hard to come to some decisions huh? Everyone's experience is very helpful. On that note I'm curious for those that have the ST with annex a few things...how many use the small stove vs the parastove? Is the parastove sufficient for heating, as shaving weight for solo trips is obviously the idea? And how many skip the peg/pole kits for trek poles or sticks??

Ken
02-25-2011, 09:37 PM
If you can do without the Cargo Chair, get a couple of UL Med pods....very light and probably 2500 cu in. of storage. Like you mentioned, you may have no choice with the new pack.

JBR- I use a Small stove in my ST. I've been down into the single digits with it and I certainly wasn't cooking myself out of it. I had a permanent line of frost in the back half of the tarp that I simply could not burn off. I've never used a Parastove before, but I'd want the Small for anything below freezing with the Supertarp.

Reid
02-26-2011, 02:06 AM
Oh great catch on the Pstove vs Small Stove!

Probably too many times this question has been asked somewhere in the archives...what about the Small Stove in my 4 man? My Medium is about perfect to get it shirt sleeve temps in my 4 man.

Will the small stove manage shirt sleeves when outside temps around 15 degrees F?

Reid
02-26-2011, 02:22 AM
P.S. So just to realize what the KU5200 has done for me, I've only increased my total system weight pack+shelter+stove weight by 67 percent of what my mightey G2 Longhunter weighs alone!

Ken
02-26-2011, 07:48 AM
I can try the Small in my 4-man Reid. Looks like the middle of next week might show us single digits overnight. That should be a pretty good test for the Small. I'll have to use my Medium pipe on it, which may or not work out all that well. As I mentioned the Small was maxed out in the ST in single digit temps, but it'll be interesting to see how the extra pipe in the shelter helps out. This is a test I've been meaning to try for a while now, I just keep forgetting about it. Now's a good time...

JBR- Forgot to respond to the stick/pole kit. I'll usually bring along 4-5 Durapegs for the main stakeout points, then just use sticks cut on site for the rest. Same for the poles....cut'em on site. There's no shortage of sticks in this neck of the woods...lol...

mgutman
02-26-2011, 08:46 AM
Hard to come to some decisions huh? Everyone's experience is very helpful. On that note I'm curious for those that have the ST with annex a few things...how many use the small stove vs the parastove? Is the parastove sufficient for heating, as shaving weight for solo trips is obviously the idea? And how many skip the peg/pole kits for trek poles or sticks??

I use a small stove. The premise when I ordered was that it would take less stoking and bigger pieces of wood than the para. But many guys on here love the para and have no problems. And it's not like the small is a stoke it full of wood and forget it stove, still takes your attention.

I bring a bunch of durapegs for all the stake outs and use trekking poles for the poles. I would use cut sticks with confidence if I didn't have the trekking poles. Never tried using just "twigs" as mentioned for the stake out...would be interested to hear if others have had success with that.

Wanderlustr
02-26-2011, 08:59 AM
Hard to come to some decisions huh? Everyone's experience is very helpful. On that note I'm curious for those that have the ST with annex a few things...how many use the small stove vs the parastove? Is the parastove sufficient for heating, as shaving weight for solo trips is obviously the idea? And how many skip the peg/pole kits for trek poles or sticks??

I use trekking poles. For stakes - I bring an assortment so I have different areas covered, a few dura pegs, a few msr ground hogs and some ti nails - very light weight kit.
For a stove I use a ti-goat cylinder stove and it is fine weighs in at 1 1/2#'s w/Ti pipe.
5249

JBR
02-26-2011, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the replies. I am inclined to bring a few dura-pegs and use a combo of sticks and trek poles for the rest. Wanderlust, I noticed you have 4 different cooking containers, although the 2 smaller ones on more cups. Just curious what you cook in the two larger pots as I only bring my ti snow peak pot with sm pan lid and canteen cup? Looks like it's a bit of a balancing act with pots on the round stove top too, but I've heard others say good things about that stove as well. I think Evan or Scot might have one as well.

Wanderlustr
02-26-2011, 02:55 PM
I think there are just 2 cooking containers there - 2 ti pots. 1 of which has the arc of the cylinder shaped in the bottom and 1 use on my canister stove for a quick boil. There is a ti cup - but it is double walled, so you can't use it on heat. And there is a MSR coffee filter thing, which now stays at home most the time since Starbucks VIA came out.
I cook mostly water :) - I dehydrate stuff on my own or Mountain House stuff, and coffee. Freezer bag too - http://www.trailcooking.com/
As far as the ti wood stove I like it for the weight and it burns nice. but too many parts to keep track of and kind of fussy putting together if I am out of practice.
Evan & Scott have their own versions of cylinder stoves, canisters stoves that have minimal assembly required (if any) from what I gathered.

evanhill
02-26-2011, 03:26 PM
minimal assembly required. unfold the legs, drop the stove pipe into the holder, done.

5252

took a few hours to make though.

Reid
02-26-2011, 05:26 PM
Great idea, i still have plenty of time, if small stove is not enough there is time for reconsideration.

I expect you are right about the stove pipe and heat, i expect significant heat transfer over the lenght of the longer pipe. Flames shoot out the top of my medium when i have it roaring...

Does smoke get trapped in the inner reaches of the ST? Or not so much?

Wanderlustr
02-26-2011, 05:38 PM
Does smoke get trapped in the inner reaches of the ST? Or not so much?

No, it is not a problem.

JBR
02-26-2011, 08:10 PM
Evan, it's been awhile since I've seen any pics of your cylinder stove...very nice. You're a man of many talents. Got any pics of the stove as it sits in your pack? If it doesn't break down much, it looks like it would be bulky and somewhat combersome in pack, so I'm curious. I like the flattened top to it as well.

Wander - I agree about the Starbuck's VIA and mostly "cooking" water out there. I gotta try experimenting with making some of the dehydrated homemade meals this year.

evanhill
02-27-2011, 09:02 AM
Thanks Jim.

It's a 6x9" cylinder with an additional square 1/2" deep on the bottom when the legs are folded, and I usually keep my food inside of it in the pack. Note that it is shown here in a small (~2500ci) pack. In a larger pack, there is room beside it for my pot so the two together comprise one "packing unit":

5255

Wanderlustr
02-27-2011, 09:30 AM
What's it weigh Evan?

evanhill
02-27-2011, 10:01 AM
1.5# without the stove pipe. Stove pipe weight will of course vary with length and stainless versus ti.

Wanderlustr
02-27-2011, 10:19 AM
That's not bad! I am thinking of doing a larger canister stove for the 8 man and pulk. Just got to find the right container....

scothill
02-27-2011, 11:29 AM
That's not bad! I am thinking of doing a larger canister stove for the 8 man and pulk. Just got to find the right container....

Evan WILL be doing a larger one for pulk travel before next years rondee that is if the catalytic heater doesn't work out....;)

njloco
03-01-2011, 09:47 AM
This is a great thread, I have already made up my mind and will be pulling the plug on a Sawtooth this week with all the bells and whistles. However,I am thinking about making my own stove though, only reason is so I can say I made it myself, it's kind of nice to accomplish little things like that . since I won't be needing the stove for a few months I'll have time to ponder the construction.

Thanks to one and all.

Ken
03-02-2011, 05:39 PM
Unfortunately tonight is going to be the cold night of the week and I can't get out to try things out. Maybe tomorrow.

Ken
03-03-2011, 04:28 PM
Tipi's up. Gonna try the stove pipe swap after dinner and give it a whirl....we might get down to zero again tonight.

Ken
03-03-2011, 07:18 PM
Been out for roughly an hour and a half...it was 10, it's now 7 and the Small Stove is having NO trouble keeping the 4-man warm. I'd say zero wouldn't be a problem either. I've been wearing a sweatshirt over a tee shirt with some synthetic logger pants (somewhat insulated, definitely not 24-7 caliber...) and have been laying on a closed cell pad, feeding the stove. I can feel the chill while laying down, but as soon as I sit up, there's alot more heat.

Wanderlustr
03-03-2011, 07:40 PM
I can feel the chill while laying down, but as soon as I sit up, there's alot more heat.

What? you don't have the KU ceiling fan???

Ken
03-04-2011, 05:22 AM
I forgetfully left it in the house....

Reid
03-04-2011, 07:34 AM
Ken,

Thanks so much for your kind effort! Perfect Now I can go in confidence and cut the pound out! Plus the small stove will be good to have in the event I go next to an annex for my Paratarp or invest in a Supertarp or Sawtooth...etc.

Dry cloths are possible then which also cuts weight by reducing the redundant extra clothing for back up.

Do you think you could have boiled water at that temp? Thinking I will just leave my small fuel stove behind, which when hunting with a partner I bring to make quick breakfast without dealing with cooling down the stove before breakdown.

Thanks again!
Reid

Ken
03-04-2011, 08:17 AM
I was burning some pretty dry stuff, scraps etc. from the old indoor woodstove. The stuff has been in the basement for 3-4 years. This wasn't exactly what you would get in the woods this time of year, and I was getting a real good burn. No problems boiling water, stove pipe was red right through the roof, blowing flame 2' out of the pipe. With actual 'from the field' firewood, I'd expect to do the firewood shuffle, keeping the next in line to burn wood right under the stove on the snow platform. I'd doubt there would be any trouble boiling water used in that manner. That's how I run these little buggers anyways...keep the firewood next to the stove warm and dry...Sometimes right ON the stove! :D

I would carry this combo with utmost confidence to 0 maybe even -10.

There's a pretty good difference in size and weight between the Small and the Med. all packed up ready to go also. Considering how well the Small seems to heat and the fact that both stove need near constant tending, I'd be inclined to use the Small for most everything in a 4-man short of full blown long duration winter camping. The Small likely burns less wood, which is worth considering. I'll have to try the two of them sometime side by side to verify this, but it seems that way so far.

As far as day to day breakdown, wood stove Vs. other...I'd imagine the other is much quicker. I bring along a pair of leather gloves to help with hot stove dismantle duties. Clear the exit, open the tipi doors, quickly yank off the pipe, scoop up the stove and run it outside to dump. The stove cools real fast once dumped, but it still takes me 15 minutes or so for the whole proceedure.

Reid
03-13-2011, 05:37 AM
Just when I thought I had things sorted....I watched a few YouTube videos and poof new thoughts.

1) what if i went with the 3700 and side pockets or E&E?
2) what if I got a Sawtoth?

Could I stuff a Sawtooth canopy into a side pocket and eliminate the stuff sack? Leave the netting home as well as short back poll and use one of my treking poles for rear.

Could I use the other side pocket for food?

Would then arriving camp could I dump off side pockets and have a smaller 3700 for my day pack which would be smaller than 5200 and more archery stalking friendly?

Ken
03-13-2011, 06:08 AM
I'd say yes to all of the above. Don't forget about the UL PODS.

http://kifaru.net/KUpods.html

I use PODS and Side Pockets along with my Siwash and I can get a week out of the pack when on a 2-man hunt. With some careful packing I could do a week solo using my Supertarp. I too like the shorter pack for stillhunting (campared to my LH Rhondy).

davesuvak
03-13-2011, 01:47 PM
Reid,

That is the conclusion I came to. I was thinking about the 5200 until I saw the videos and decided the 3700 fit my needs better. I ordered a 3700 with two medium pods and an E&E. I believe I can fit my camp within the pods and E&E (side pockets would work as well). On my way into camp I will carry my camping supplies inside the 3700 and when I arrive dump the supplies then hunt with the "mostly empty" 3700. If I get an animal I will put the meat inside the 3700 and attach my camp to the outside using the E&E and pods.

I figure the 3700 will hold as much meat as as my legs and back can carry. I've determined that in order to carry a heavy load I need to compress the cargo (meat) inside the pack to keep it distributed properly. There are not a lot of things in my camping gear that I want compressed inside my pack with the meat.

Since I intend to carry my camping supplies in external pods and pockets the 5200 is more than I need for the trips I have planned (mostly 2-5 days with a max of 7 days). And as you say the 3700 is "more archer stalking friendly".

Take-a-knee
03-13-2011, 03:16 PM
Reid,

That is the conclusion I came to. I was thinking about the 5200 until I saw the videos and decided the 3700 fit my needs better. I ordered a 3700 with two medium pods and an E&E. I believe I can fit my camp within the pods and E&E (side pockets would work as well). On my way into camp I will carry my camping supplies inside the 3700 and when I arrive dump the supplies then hunt with the "mostly empty" 3700. If I get an animal I will put the meat inside the 3700 and attach my camp to the outside using the E&E and pods.

I figure the 3700 will hold as much meat as as my legs and back can carry. I've determined that in order to carry a heavy load I need to compress the cargo (meat) inside the pack to keep it distributed properly. There are not a lot of things in my camping gear that I want compressed inside my pack with the meat.

Since I intend to carry my camping supplies in external pods and pockets the 5200 is more than I need for the trips I have planned (mostly 2-5 days with a max of 7 days). And as you say the 3700 is "more archer stalking friendly".

This is exactly what I've decided to do.

Reid
03-13-2011, 04:09 PM
Guys This is interesting. If given the stays are the same length, and I don't have the 5200 bag full, then would it not compress down to a similar size as the 3700?

Have a look at this post: How-effective-are-the-two-compression-straps-on-the-KU-5200

Great pics of the pack compressed down. Perhaps I've been over thinking this?

Then again given the KU bags are one solid tube, really like a great big stuff sack, so then the Pockets, E&E, Pods etc act as a quick way to the gear....But am I just adding back weight that I'm so eager to shave in the solo situation? After all I have a G2 LH Standard which is the mother of all things modular....

I guess the question is: Will the 3700 when loaded with day trip gear feel or "archery hunt" (stalk sneak etc) with any measure of real practical difference than the KU5200 with the same amount of gear for the day?

Really this is fun to think about, then when you get into the field all the thought becomes reality and the quality of the choice will be determined on the first day. I can honestly say I loved the first day with my G2LH; however, solo I could stand to diet more (not me the pack, I'm thin enough already).

Just for the record my extreme thought is My G2LH+4Man+Med Stove = @17lbs vs KU5200+Paratipi+Small Stove = Less than 10lbs. That's a 7lb diet and effectively the same performance (minus the comfort of the larger shelter naturally).

Wanderlustr
03-13-2011, 05:05 PM
I was looking at this from a archery standpoint as well.
I went 5200. When I first thought about the choices that was it....... And then I started really thinking, like you, maybe a 3700 would be better suited for my needs. But I already know for my use 5,200 cu's are tight for a 10 day hunt - if I need I can always add pockets and pods. But for the PNW I decided to go with a grab it and a lash kit with helium dry bags as pack organizers. I can pull out the camp bags in no time and cinch it in to have a day trip pack with that gear organized in another drybag. For hauling meat the light gear will get strapped outside otherwise everything is inside one clean pack.
The weight of the pockets & pods, the lack of their waterproofness and cost, were factors as well as the general size. The added weight carry capacity and less stuff hanging on the outside also played in. Day hunting I don't think it will matter which one I went with - they would both be compressed anyway.

Ken
03-14-2011, 08:34 AM
"Will the 3700 when loaded with day trip gear feel or "archery hunt" (stalk sneak etc) with any measure of real practical difference than the KU5200 with the same amount of gear for the day?"


Given the same stay length, I'd say there would be little difference in feel between the two...until you start packin out some meat...then the 5200 is prolly gonna feel mo betta given the higher rated hip belt.

Your right, it is fun to think/weigh all the options. I think you've run most every combo through your head and asked alot of good questions. Your going to have to figure out just how small a shelter you can stand, then figure out how much you want to spend, then have at it!:D

If you think you can get by with the Paratipi only having one door and don't get claustrophobic, then the 7 lb savings and smaller loadout make the 5200/PT/Sm. St. combo the way to go. If you don't think you will make it in the PT, get a small stove for your 4-man and the 5200.

You could get by with the 3700, but considering your hunting Elk, and could be facing 300 or so pounds of 'packing out'....you probably oughtta go 5200.

Wayne Hoffman
03-14-2011, 11:19 AM
this is a great read. I am planing on a elk hunt myself with my siwash and st

Reid
05-09-2011, 09:16 PM
OK so finally I just ordered a KU5200, grabit, belt pouch, and large possible pouch....leaving the cargo chair, and my beloved G2 behind on my Solo Hunt in SW Colorado this fall...out two weeks Solo chasing my favorite quarry with my bow....need every ounce of savings I can get.

Still deciding to just get the small stove for my 4 man and call it good....or considering the sawtooth or paratipi as low weight alternates...my mind shifts to crawling into a paratipi for two weeks vs drying my gear out in comfort like in my 4 man or sawtooth and I start to think the weight I saved in my pack and small vs medium stove has now enabled me to have the larger more comfortable living space and enjoy my trip more....hard to say I guess I will wait to get my pack and try it out with the full load of gear and see how it fairs on my back....perhaps the range I will get with the paratipi and using my treking polls will save me enough to consider the smaller package...

long range solo fans...what say you on the shelter choice small and light with treking polls or large and spacious and a bit more weight?????

Thanks!

Wanderlustr
05-09-2011, 10:42 PM
My 5200 just arrived today and it is now fitted and decked out with accessories.... loaded, sitting in front of me. I'll hit the trail tomorrow for some miles with some weight.
Reid, regarding the shelter choice, I don't recall.... are you moving your camp daily? Or are you packing into a area, say like a 5-10 mile day in and basing out of that?

Reid
05-10-2011, 08:09 PM
Wanderlustr

Congratulations on your new 5200...when you say decked out, what did you finally add to it? Can't wait to get your feedback on your new pack and accessories. Which accessories did you go with?

As for my hunt, I will travel in about 10 miles or more initially then spend a day or two depending on animal traffic, then switch to another basin about 3-4 miles away, same thing a day or two, then switch to another basin say 4 miles away, then finally the 4th basin another 1-2 miles away. So perhaps 4-5 locations. Certainly if an animal I'm interested in is present and I don't blow them out then perhaps I may stay 1-3 days in a single spot.

Normally I hunt with a horse, and travel to a different spot each day, last year I decided to back pack in with my G2 and I enjoyed the freedom of not having to manage my horse(s).

So the more I think about it, saving energy may be my best option, perhaps the Paratipi and my treking polls seem like the smartest and lightest option.....I'm sure many have done long trips in the Paratipi, my guess is that hanging cloths up to dry will be my biggest draw back when compared to my 4 man. Though my 4 man is an earlier version and that means the netting is sewn into both doors...adding netting and 2 extra zippers of weight...with the Paratipi I can go real lean....

I too plan to set up my new 5200 when it comes and try out the load with my 4 man to see if I like the result. I can imagine that given the ground and the elevation and steepness; I will be able to hunt harder the more energy I save....

Wanderlustr
05-10-2011, 08:59 PM
Reid, decked out for my 5200 is (so far) is..... a grab it, lash kit, possibles pouch, belt pouch and the water bottle holder. The possibles pouch can go on as a pocket if I need the belt space for my Safe Packer holster. Seems with my drybags that will pretty much handle about any combination I need when it comes to packing out meat. So far it is working out great as I mess around with different rigging and load options.
I think your Paratipi is what I would go with for that scenario.... since I would use my SuperTarp/annex in that case. It must be about 2 pounds different..... that's 2 beers :)

falcon
05-14-2011, 10:29 AM
I just skimmed the thread, so sorry if this was addressed, but will you be packing out and then returning with a beast to get the remainding elk or do you plan to take an elk out that many miles in three or four round trips?

This is always a consideration for me and my partner in where we head to hunt each day and I like hearing how everyone plans this part of the hunt in Sept.

I think the ST/sm stove would be my choice.

Wanderlustr
05-15-2011, 09:39 AM
Falcon, I have packed a boned elk out in 2 trips. Coolers w/ice in the truck. This week I did about 5 miles a day with 80#'s in the KU5200 (all painless), hope I get a chance to pack some meat with it this year.

Reid
05-16-2011, 08:07 PM
Falcon

Honestly I have great endurance; however, not such a strong back. While I realize that Patrick has designed his packs to truly carry the load on the hips...My G2 LH is wonderful...I also realize that I must when solo lift the pack up and "mount" it onto my hips....and with my back not such a good idea with a load over 40lbs....so Yes a Horse or Team of horses to bring out my meat should I decide to harvest an animal.

I do have my own horses so that makes life a bit easier...love my saddle horse he's amazing; his sire is national champion halter horse, and his bottom side grandfather is also national champion halter horse so he looks amazing; but, what's most important is not looks, it's his mind, he's so freekin smart and nothing rattles him he's really the perfect adventure horse. So he can do a bunch of work and enjoy doing if for me, looking good all the while he's doing it...but I prefer to just try this trip on my own. Should I find an Bull that I can harvest then I'll call on "Little Man" to come fetch out the meat for me and save my back to hunt another day.

I'm not afraid to take out my Bull in may small loads (in fact I've harvested Caribou that way in the past few years) but I prefer to let my horse have some fun too.