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View Full Version : Stick a Zulu on a Duplex Frame?



ton45
04-16-2010, 08:33 PM
I just found this thread regarding the flexibility of the duplex frame and got me thinking again.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?t=18012

Can I attach/piggyback a Zulu on a duplex frame along with a cargo chair?

I think it's the creative thinking that gets people addicted to Kifaru packs. :D

Busto963
04-17-2010, 01:07 PM
I am sure you can.

One downside is that you will be hauling two suspension systems instead of one; so the weight of your rig will be greater than simply using an EMR.

AG Frame weight: 4 lbs., 10 oz
Gen2 Zulu weight: 4 lbs., 5 oz
Total: 8 lbs., 14 oz (52 liters)

EMR weight: 8 lbs (123 liters)

Essentially you carry almost an extra pound of weight and loose 71 liters of volume (pack capacity).

Of course you gain the flexibility of pack plus hauler…

Take-a-knee
04-17-2010, 02:50 PM
It is truly a crying shame that there is no such thing as a ZULU PLUS (4800ci) on an MMR frame. If you left all the zippers off it wouldn't be too heavy.

ton45
04-17-2010, 07:47 PM
It is truly a crying shame that there is no such thing as a ZULU PLUS (4800ci) on an MMR frame. If you left all the zippers off it wouldn't be too heavy.

My thoughts exactly. I'm thinking on just pulling the trigger on an MMR G2 frame and just figuring and testing it out in the field. Although Busto963 is right on weight gain plus space capacity loss there is still a very strong potential for having two packs in one. It's almost the E&E docking on any large pack. This time, it's a medium sized pack growing to an even larger pack.

Brotzie
04-18-2010, 12:26 AM
How big a hauler do you want? The OmniYoke (https://www.kifaru.net/omniyoke.html) uses the Zulu straps, belt and stays. I wonder if you could rig a 'stripped' Zulu bag to an OmniYoke/Cargo Chair combo?

AndyL
04-18-2010, 03:47 AM
Will it still work with the Zulu stays? I thought in the past the Zulu, yoke and Marauder all had 18in stays.

ton45
04-18-2010, 10:06 AM
How big a hauler do you want? The OmniYoke (https://www.kifaru.net/omniyoke.html) uses the Zulu straps, belt and stays. I wonder if you could rig a 'stripped' Zulu bag to an OmniYoke/Cargo Chair combo?

How big? Enough to carry half a deer on my back. The sled is an option but when the terrain is steep, which it has been lately, it becomes a liability.

I never considered the OmniYoke until you mentioned it but I'm just worried it might not be enough. Depending on the buck or doe, it could go over a 100 pounds for half a deer that has been field dressed.

BTW, I reside and hunt at the big Canadian white north.

I could just call it the day and get the MMR or EMR but my objective is to maximize the flexibility of my equipment. Hopefully I can find a solution in this forum.

Busto963
04-20-2010, 12:28 PM
How big? Enough to carry half a deer on my back. The sled is an option but when the terrain is steep, which it has been lately, it becomes a liability.

I never considered the OmniYoke until you mentioned it but I'm just worried it might not be enough. Depending on the buck or doe, it could go over a 100 pounds for half a deer that has been field dressed.

BTW, I reside and hunt at the big Canadian white north.

I could just call it the day and get the MMR or EMR but my objective is to maximize the flexibility of my equipment. Hopefully I can find a solution in this forum.

I would go with the hauler for the purpose you describe and forgo the Omni Yoke.

On point for consideration: if you are hauling a side of mule deer, maybe you should rig the the Zulu to hang off of the front of the hauler (in front of you) to balance the load a little better.

ton45
07-19-2010, 07:45 PM
As promised the continuation...

Finally got the time to try my G1 Zulu pack on my G2 EMR frame and hauler.

At the bottom of both EMR and Zulu I've attached the slot that is normally used for the hauler to the Zulu with a slick clip. The frame hauler is attached to were the hauler is normally coupled for the Zulu. The hauler is then attached to the EMR frame, tightened to secure the Zulu pack. I added a D&L lashing for good measure.

It seems to work. I have the top half of the frame to still put either my E&E, a medium or large pod with a sleeping bag. I will put long pockets on the side for more storage space too.

I wanted to try installing the Zulu on the top half of the frame but that seems to be more complicated. I might need to fabricate some kind of a glove that will attached and secure the shoulder strap piece to go that route.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010415.jpg
I removed the Zulu shoulder straps, waist belt, and internal frame pieces.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010417.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010418.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010419.jpg

djumpmonkey
07-20-2010, 01:27 PM
Ton45,

Rock on man. Let us know how the beast handles in the field. You've had me curious ever since you began posting your thoughts a while back. I hope it works well (with the Zulu, I know the hauler will rock as intended). Keep us informed. We need pics in the field!

God bless,
Adam

ton45
07-20-2010, 09:37 PM
Keep us informed. We need pics in the field!


Adam,

Will do :D.

One thing though. I will still try to attach the Zulu to the top part of the frame. I would still prefer the Zulu to be in that position so I can raise the collar and easily access the contents of the pack. The large pod could go to the bottom.

Ton

djumpmonkey
07-21-2010, 08:46 AM
Ton45,

You do what you need to to make the setup work for you! Let me ask this if I may, how will moving the Zulu up affect the balance/weight distribution of the pack? My experience is limited to a G1 Zulu and schoolbags, so I've never really experimented with this. Let me know the results. I'm eying up a hauler myself. Hauler + Pods is seeming a light weight, versitile and comfy way to go. But, its off in some distant future where I have a spare $300 or more. Also how do you feel about the Cargo chair. Is it a necessity with the Hauler setup, or could one lug around some pods (or pack) without it just fine?

God bless,
Adam

ton45
07-21-2010, 12:05 PM
Let me ask this if I may, how will moving the Zulu up affect the balance/weight distribution of the pack? ....... Is it a necessity with the Hauler setup, or could one lug around some pods (or pack) without it just fine?

Adam,
I'm hoping that the balance works but it really al depends how I pack the heaviest items and how close I get them to my spine. This will need some experimentation.

The current set-up I have, were the zulu is at the lower part of the frame, uses the hauler to secure the pack to the frame. I will come out with a solution were it does not have to rely on it. Although, one of the main reasons, I have integrated the hauler to the set-up is to use it for the secondary purpose of hauling meat. I dump, the zulu pack and pod at base camp, bring the frame and hauler with an E&E bag for the hunt. I also like lugging it around as a chair.

The frame really works well with out the hauler and like you mentioned with a bunch of pods or pockets. Before experimenting with the zulu, I've been lugging the frame with just pods and my E&E. It's über flexible and customizable. Again, I'm just trying to maximize the use of my tools to justify my costly hobby – return on investment :D. If this exercise fails with the zulu, I can always just get the Longhunter or EMR bag and call it the day...but that would be costly :eek:.

Tön

djumpmonkey
07-22-2010, 07:51 AM
Ton,

I'm not entirely sure what your packing needs are. What about leaving the Zulu on the bottom and stacking that bad boy up out the top? Perhaps an XTL if you don't already have one (no personal experience, but I can see how it would be advantageous over the standard lid with a big load.) To stabilize the whole thing you could run horizontal compression/lashing straps across it (anchored to the hauler frame of course.) If that were to leave too much of your stuff un-protected then maybe see about getting someone to sew you up an appropriately sized piece of Cordura with webbing like on the Pods to run the straps through. I'd say a couple of columns of that webbing across the piece to make it more manageable.

Also, about what kind of capacity do you think you can get just using Pods? can you carry a lot if needed?

God bless,
Adam

ton45
07-22-2010, 08:45 PM
Also, about what kind of capacity do you think you can get just using Pods? can you carry a lot if needed?


Adam,

That is a great question. I actually never tried packing the pods with my fall hunting load. I guess I will be doing this soon to find out.

But ideally, I would still like to just take my existing Zulu that carries my essential year round gear I use for all my backpacking/BOB/hunt to the frame. Now I have to unload well thought gear system placement and repack it with pods or another larger bag (EMR) everytime I need to carry more. See why I'm so obsessed about that Zulu sticking on the frame. It just makes it really efficient.

Tön

djumpmonkey
07-22-2010, 10:13 PM
Ton,

That makes sense. No need to add hassle to the situation. I recall being told to "keep it simple stupid." At times I feel I've only accomplished the last S of the KISS method. Let me know what you find out with the containment abilities of the Pods. I'd really love it if Kifaru would at least give an estimated capacity.

God bless,
Adam

Brotzie
07-22-2010, 11:28 PM
Let me know what you find out with the containment abilities of the Pods. I'd really love it if Kifaru would at least give an estimated capacity.
The limit on containment in a pod is the drawstring opening. On a hauler, this of course goes against the frame, but if you have small items there's always a risk of loss. You van get round this by using, e.g., PullOuts - which also help hugely with organizing your load.

My observations on pod capacity are a bit qualitative and unscientific, but here goes... A medium pod, stuffed out, will roughly fill an XRay - certainly in excess of 1,500 c.i.; a small one I'd estimate at around 600.

I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at the capacity of a large pod, not having one, but they're big - this is one mounted on a Pointman (3,000 c.i.):

https://kifaru.net/images/Pod15b.jpg

2,500 c.i. or thereabouts?

All the best, Ian

djumpmonkey
07-23-2010, 08:08 AM
Ian,

Thanks for the input. Hauler+Pods is sounding like a rather viable system for hiking/camping. Apart from the weight of the Hauler itself the Pod's are quite light for their capacities it seems. It keeps getting better all the time. Now if I can just get the necessary $$$.

God bless,
Adam

ton45
07-26-2010, 06:51 PM
Update :D.

So I packed the the hauler with a small, medium, large pod, an E&E, 2 long pockets, and a claymore with hunting gear for 5 days for the fall. I realized that there was no place to stick my bladder and other dodads on pals. Not good. Total weight without water, ammo, and the rifle is around 56 pounds. Not bad.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010423.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010427.jpg

As you can see, some of the items are exposed with the pods when stuffed. After that exercise, I had to try the zulu but mounted top side this time. I had an idea of how to attach it and it seems to work...for now:(.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010436.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010431.jpg

I like this set up better because it allows me to still use the pals of my zulu and feels allot more secured than the pods stacked. To tell you the truth, after this experiment I think the dedicated bag that goes with the frame is probably the best solution. The attachments I tried in both setups just did not feel tight and secured for me. I will need to try it in the field to get a real answer to this process.

Tön:D

djumpmonkey
07-27-2010, 07:58 AM
Ton,

Thanks for the update. Please continue to keep us updated. Have you tried something like this http://www.tacticaltailor.com/modhydrationcarrier.aspx to take care of your hydration needs? I don't think it would be to hard to rig on the back of the hauler and then put your pods over top of. It holds a full 3 liters so I don't recommend it for really short hikes, unless you like to water the trees a lot!

Could you perhaps describe the instability issues you're having? I'm curious to understand what exactly it is. Also, perhaps Mel may have some advice. Kifaru, as I have seen, has always stood firmly behind their products and proper function.

God bless,
Adam


EDIT: How does the pack handle (weight and balance wise) with the Zulu up top?

ton45
07-27-2010, 01:12 PM
Adam,

I actually have something similar to that hydration pouch and actually used it on my the hauler frame with the E&E on top of it. It's a good thing you reminded me. I'm going to try with that in the mix.

In terms of the instability issue, I think it the flexing of the frame that give me that impression. A one piece bag, like the EMR, when butted up against the frame contribute to the rigidity of the pack when it's loaded. Since the pack is one tubular material that does not have any horizontal flex, the frame becomes very is rigid. The pods are sections of tubes sitting on the frame. The gaps and spacing between them have give and the frame flexes a little. When I pick up the pack filled with my heavy junk and hold it from a shoulder pad to lift it onto my back, I can feel the frame flex a little. I am confident my frame hauler will carry what I throw at it and perform, but this is just how I'm trying describe the "impression" of instability I gather. Maybe I'm just using the wrong word. Anyway, I'm still planning in using the pods only carry this fall for hunting too get a better idea on how I can improve my set-up. It still makes way too much sense to use them.

The zulu on top works really well. The balance and weight distribution feels like it was designed for the frame. I figured out an even better way to secure it and now it's very secured to the frame. Instead of attaching the large pod at bottom with my -30°C sleeping to only the frame, I attached it to the bottom of the zulu and to the bottom of frame. This made the set-up really stable. No flex at all. At least I know I can fall back to this set-ups if needed.

So this proves to me for the moment the modularity, flexibility, function, and strength of my frame hauler when using my zulu and pods but now I'm tempted to save up for a an EMR bag.

Tön

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010437.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010441.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010440.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010439.jpg

djumpmonkey
07-27-2010, 05:33 PM
Ton,

Concerning the horizontal flex, what if you were to get some simple straps with ITW repair SRB's at either end? You could lash them vertically over the entire "pack." It shouldn't cost much, and it might reduce your flex by adding some rigidity where the Pods are lacking it. And at the end of the day, it's minimal weight added, and I don't think 2 more SRB's will slow you down that much, unless you're in some kind of really serious situation. Which I hope you don't ever find yourself in.

Thanks for the continued influx of information and pictures!

God bless,
Adam

ton45
07-27-2010, 09:55 PM
Adam,

I will focus on the creative solutions for the pods. The flexing doesn't really bother me but the idea of more lashing can work. The hauler actually came with some extra lashing that will fit the job.

Next installment to this thread will be pods or maybe I should start a new thread all together :D.

Tön

djumpmonkey
07-27-2010, 10:17 PM
Ton,

It's your decision. Can you hijack your own thread? I'll be looking forward to hearing either way.

God bless,
Adam

wholidi
08-03-2010, 12:03 PM
Hi Ton,

Thanks for the postings, it's great
btw if I want to follow your setup (attached Kifaru G1 Zulu to G2 hauler frame) any additional buckles, straps that I need to buy?
I live in Singapore where it's hard to find that kind of things (buckles, etc)

Thanks

William

ton45
08-11-2010, 11:27 AM
These are what I used. :)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/ton45_photos/Kifaru/P1010444.jpg

ton45
10-24-2010, 05:57 PM
Update on this quest? I'ved abandoned it. I was tired of taking the Zulu apart and sticking it on the frame only to reassemble it to it's original configuration to use it for the purpose it was built for. Finally convinced myself to follow the METT rule. So I bought the EMR bag and never look back since. All I can say about the EMR bag on the EMR frame is AWESOME!!!!

I tested it this weekend at my brother's forest paradise and it worked more than I expected. It will go in the bush for a week to assist me with the Deer hunt. All I can say is...AWESOME!!! Kifaru has the best service and make the most AWESOME packs in the planet!!

Pictures too come after the hunt I promise. Thanks Kevin for making it on schedule!

Benny BC
11-07-2012, 04:23 AM
Hi Ton,

I'm thinking of doing this same thing but with a G2 Zulu, G2 MMR frame, Lg Pod & the Cargo Panel.
I was going to do pretty much the same as you have it set up in the pic at the top of this page, so frame, cargo panel, Lg Pod & Zulu on top. Also want to leave the suspension system attached to the Zulu only using the cargo panel to keep it on the frame instead of attaching it like you did.

You recon I should bench it?

Check out my post here to see the other options I'm thinking: http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?t=30948

Cheers mate.