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View Full Version : E&E with X-Ray Straps Question



Art Andrews
10-15-2009, 09:13 PM
If I order an E&E with the optional X-Ray Straps do the straps come permanently mounted like the 2" staps would be? Will the X-Ray straps tuck into the pouch like the originals? I would really like to have a nicer set of straps, but would like to have an idea of what I would be sacrificing.

Also, I am planning to put these on the back of a ZXR. Does the E&E fit on the back fine without interfering with the XTL top? If anyone has a pic I would really appreciate seeing them.

rhunter424
10-15-2009, 09:46 PM
To answer your 2nd question, yes the E&E can go on the back of the ZXR and not interfere with the XTL.

Sorry this is the only picture I have of the moment showing it. Just use your imagination to compress the congo line. Luckily I didn't go far with this load.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_T6CnQq4GoiE/SH1d17rokEI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/2HQllNmoxyU/s800/Picture%20013.jpg

91xlt
10-15-2009, 09:55 PM
unless kifaru changed something with the G2 series...the straps will come seperate, and orig straps will need to be cut, new straps will mount directly using the old straps.

i am sure that is clear as mud...lol

i will post a few pics up for you tommorrow, showing an E&E with orig config, the straps as shipped and then the sttraps mounted, it should clear it up for you???...LOL

sovereign
10-15-2009, 10:03 PM
unless kifaru changed something with the G2 series...the straps will come seperate, and orig straps will need to be cut, new straps will mount directly using the old straps.

i am sure that is clear as mud...lol

i will post a few pics up for you tommorrow, showing an E&E with orig config, the straps as shipped and then the sttraps mounted, it should clear it up for you???...LOL

I talked with Janice a couple of days ago. This is correct. The straps are not installed at Kifaru. You receive a complete E&E and separate X-Ray straps and can install them at your option.

Art Andrews
10-15-2009, 11:56 PM
Wow! And I was worried about the E&E behind the ZXR might pull to far away from my body! You have me beat up and down!!!

Hmmm... Not sure what to think about just putting the straps on myself. Does anyone have these straps installed on their E&E? If so, do you like it? Are the straps bulky when attaching the E&E to another pack?





http://lh5.ggpht.com/_T6CnQq4GoiE/SH1d17rokEI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/2HQllNmoxyU/s800/Picture%20013.jpg

one911emergency
10-16-2009, 07:46 AM
I have the exact setup you're suggesting (a ZXR with an XTL with an E&E [with X-ray straps] on the back of the pack. When the pack is full there is no prospect of the E&E interfering with the XTL (and I would imagine even if the pack was half full there it still wouldn't get in the way). I bought the X-ray straps several months ago and yes you have to cut the original straps off in order to put the X-ray straps on (trust me it's like watching your first born being circumcised). They are not are not permanently attached. I thought that they might be bulky as well and get in the way of D&Ling it to my pack but the straps are surprisingly trim. It mates to the pack quite well, really I've noticed virtually no difference in the way it rides on the pack. That being said they are a vast improvement over the original straps. They are an improvement in both comfort but they really add a tremendous amount of stability to the pack (this is nice because the E&E doesn't have a hip belt to add to it's stability).

I bought the straps for a couple of different reasons. I wanted to see what they were like, and I thought that I was making my Multicam E&E into a pseudo GHB (get home bag). Unfortunately things didn't work out the way I had planned. The E&E ended up being thrown right back on my ZXR (I like having the grab and go option on my pack it allows me to jettison my larger load and keep going with my survival essentials, this is the primary role of the E&E).

Here's a little tip for securing your E&E to your larger pack. This is the trick I use to get the E&E to really "hug" my ZXR and stay tight against the pack body.

I cinch all the D&L straps on my finger so that I can feed the loose end of the strap under itself so that it won't come loose while hiking. But the real key is to not cinch the side compression straps on the ZXR. leave them loose and D&L your E&E. Make sure it's nice and tight and then cinch the side compression straps on the ZXR. You will notice a tremendous improvement in the way the E&E rides (as apposed to cinching the side compression straps of the ZXR first and then D&Ling the E&E). I discovered this by accident but it works very well.

steveb
10-16-2009, 08:03 AM
I have used the E&E w X-Ray straps and w/o. I recommend the X-Ray straps if you plan to use the E&E on a regular basis by itself (as an EDC pack). If not, and you plan to primarily D&L it to a larger pack and use it as a SHTF pouch, or with only occasional or short-range use, then you don't need (or even want them).

Bullfrog
10-16-2009, 02:38 PM
Like the others have said, the Xray straps are definitely worth it if you plan to use your E&E for more than 30 minutes at a time or if you plan to carry it loaded up.

I dont think you sacrifice anything by upgrading the straps.

Installation is very very simple and requires only two cuts. Here is my E&E with Xray straps attached and the process:

Cut original E&E straps at top (yes you can toss the left over buckles and sternum strap from it):
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/harry1922/photo-30.jpg

Thread excess strap through top D ring of Xray straps:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/harry1922/photo-16.jpg

Connect bottom of strap through (it just slips in)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/harry1922/photo-32.jpg

To store the straps, unclip the bottom part and fold:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/harry1922/photo-17.jpg

Xray straps tucked away
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/harry1922/photo-18.jpg

Here is a past thread on the topic - pics are on post #31

http://kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?t=11605&page=4&highlight=E%26amp%3BE+Xray+straps

:D

sovereign
10-16-2009, 03:22 PM
Like the others have said, the Xray straps are definitely worth it if you plan to use your E&E for more than 30 minutes at a time or if you plan to carry it loaded up.

I dont think you sacrifice anything by upgrading the straps.


The one thing I think you sacrifice is the lack of bulk when stowing the straps. I would be less likely to D&L an E&E with the X-Ray Straps, for woods carry at least. I was one of the first to do this mod after Mel announced it was possible. I had two G1 E&Es which I performed the mod on. I recently sold both and ordered a G2 Multicam as I really think the panel load design will work well for what I will be using the E&E for. I did not order the X-Ray straps at this time. Gonna see just how bad those seat belts are again before I go for it...

Bullfrog
10-16-2009, 03:50 PM
I don't think the stock straps are bad - they serve the purpose they were designed for. I think that it should depend on how you intend to use the E&E for the majority of the time. If you intend to use the E&E as a true E&E bag, docked and locked to a larger bag, then the stock straps are perfect - as they were initially designed for.

I think the second one changes the initial intention of the E&E, like from an
E&E to a dedicated EDC bag, the xray straps would prove a better choice.

Mel
10-16-2009, 05:25 PM
Hey guys, just a couple comments here about the shoulder straps on the E&E. There really is no need to detach the shoulder straps on the E&E when Dock n Locking it onto a pack. It just saves the hassle of having to hook them back up when clicking off the E&E. Also, even with the Xray shoulder straps on the E&E, you can stuff them behind the E&E, Dock n Lock it onto the pack, and not even be able to see the shoulder straps. Trust me on that.

Mel

sovereign
10-16-2009, 08:22 PM
Hey guys, just a couple comments here about the shoulder straps on the E&E. There really is no need to detach the shoulder straps on the E&E when Dock n Locking it onto a pack. It just saves the hassle of having to hook them back up when clicking off the E&E. Also, even with the Xray shoulder straps on the E&E, you can stuff them behind the E&E, Dock n Lock it onto the pack, and not even be able to see the shoulder straps. Trust me on that.

Mel

Problem is: when I put the X-Ray straps on I know I'll be tempted to put a GPS Pouch or two on them for quick access to an IOR Monocular and GPS, thus adding to the bulk! I'll probably end up with the X-Ray straps again, but I did not order them with the E&E because then it would be a foregone conclusion.

http://coloradoshooting.org/v-web/gallery/albums/Sovereign/IMG_4271.jpg

Art Andrews
10-16-2009, 10:46 PM
Thanks for all the feedback! I think you have pretty much convinced me to go with the E&E with the X-Ray straps!

91xlt
10-16-2009, 11:16 PM
here are a couple pics for you...

one shows an E&E with standard straps,
next, the upgraded straps as from kifaru,
then, an E&E with upgraded straps installed/mounted.

lastly, a photo showing an E&E with a couple accesories added, with the upgraded straps making the strap upgrade much more desireable...imo

DM6
02-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I've been thinking about getting an E&E and x ray strap.

The E&E would be used while mountain biking and skiing. I've read (can't remember where) that someone else had tried mountain biking with it and didn't like it because it did not fit securely on the rider. I was thinking this would be solved by adding the x-ray straps.

My question is about the modification itself. If I'm not mistaken, to add the new straps you have to cut the old ones. The leftover E&E strap coming from the top of the pack then threads into the buckle on the top of the new x-ray straps. After that, it seems, there's no going back to the old straps. They get tossed out.

Would it be possible to have a similar strap buckle (like the one on the top of the x-ray straps) sewn onto the top of the old ones? This way, you could take the x-rays off, and put the old ones back on.

With 2 of those buckles and a few more stitches the bag could be converted back to the original, if for some reason I didn't like the x-ray straps.

Did I explain that well enough?

SLG
02-08-2010, 01:16 PM
I've been thinking about this myself, thanks for resurecting the thread. I'm about to recieve my first E&E, and am trying to figure out the best way to use it. It occured to me that if you really want the better straps, why not just use a scout instead? The E&E weighs 11 ounces less than the scout when stock. I haven't weighed my x-ray straps, but they have to be about 6 ounces. Now there's a 5 ounce difference between the two, give or take. Given that many people seem to then load up the E&E with extra pouches for extra gear, the base weight is probably identical, or even a little heavier than the scout. The scout compresses very small, and gives you 300 CI more to begin with, meaning less pouches and weight to add to the base. If you want to add weight, add an unpadded waistbelt, and now when you use it, it will blow the E&E/X-ray straps out of the water for comfort and stability.

I'm sure I'll be fired on for this, but it seems that adding PALS to the E&E may have been a mistake in judgement. Too many people seem to want to fill any available PALS space, regardless of need or weight. Obvioously, that is a bit tongue in cheek, and I don't blame Kifaru for adding PALS. Its the shooter, not the gun;-)

straps
02-08-2010, 01:19 PM
...My question is about the modification itself. If I'm not mistaken, to add the new straps you have to cut the old ones. The leftover E&E strap coming from the top of the pack then threads into the buckle on the top of the new x-ray straps. After that, it seems, there's no going back to the old straps. They get tossed out.

Would it be possible to have a similar strap buckle (like the one on the top of the x-ray straps) sewn onto the top of the old ones? This way, you could take the x-rays off, and put the old ones back on.

With 2 of those buckles and a few more stitches the bag could be converted back to the original, if for some reason I didn't like the x-ray straps.

Did I explain that well enough?

Yeah you make perfect sense, I explored this with my E&E and a set of X-Ray straps and realized the following:

The E&E stock straps are actually a complex piece of sewing involving 2 widths of webbing, with an angle and a sternum strap worked in. To install a set of X-Ray shoulder straps WITHOUT cutting you'd have to work all that through the top buckles.

You could install a 2" tri-glide onto the portion of the stock E&E strap you cut down, and re-assemble them into a strong package by doubling the tail of the 2" stock straps back through the triglide. The problem with that is you would have a rigid 2" triglide somewhere that flexible material is far far preferable.

Too low and that triglide will dig into your sides right below your pectoralis muscle, too high and it will be digging into your collarbone.

You may be able to figure out a "sweet spot" (probably on line with your nipples) where your pecs are thickest and cut so that the threaded triglides sit there.

This would definitely be a "measure 5 times, cut once," try it for a while, do the opposite strap at a different location, try that out, decide which works, and order another E&E when you're sure what works.

What I wound up doing was keeping the stock straps, cutting a piece of kydex from a discarded equipment case into a framesheet of sorts and sliding it into the strap stowage sleeve. A 100 oz CB Omega (short, wide) bladder works almost as well.

DM6
02-08-2010, 02:42 PM
I'm a visual person, so just to make sure we are on the same page:

https://www.kifaru.net/images/e-e_relativesize.gif

The part of this strap, where you can see daylight between the bag, the strap and the dude. The strap could not be cut somewhere in that area, and a 3 ring bar added to the top of the soon to be discarded E&E straps? Up around the middle bar, back down and sewn on itself. You would have a 3 ring bar at the top of the throw away straps just like there are on the Scout and Marauder straps (minus the padding in that area).

Make the cut almost at the guys shoulder. When the bag strap portion is threaded through the 3 bar ring you will loose some length, but the 3 ring bar will be in a good spot and you can compensate for the loss of a few inches of strap by letting some out at the adjustable bottom.

This would probably be a modification that required a upholstry sewing machine for us, or the nice folks at Kifaru being kind enough to do it before sending it out.

Is this what you were thinking I meant, and would it still have the same issues which you discussed?

Lone Wolf
02-08-2010, 02:51 PM
Seems to me Straps is making it too complicated. I would go along with what you explained with the pictures.

But the piece of webbing that remain on the pack, don´t cut it too short. You´´ll need perhaps 5 inches minimum for attaching the x-ray straps.