h1n1

[evanhill]

A communication from my kids' school. Any opinions?:


Please read the attached information regarding the FREE H1N1 flu vaccination clinic that will be held..... This vaccination clinic is completely voluntary and will happen during school hours. If you would like your child to participate, a Vaccination Screening Form must be completely filled out, signed, and dated. Your signature gives consent for your child to receive the H1N1 vaccine at school. STUDENTS WITH INCOMPLETE FORMS WILL NOT BE VACCINATED!

Children under 10 years of age will need two doses of the H1N1 vaccine four weeks apart. If your child is under 10 years old, please completely fill out, sign, and date TWO vaccination screening forms. We will send out an email notifying families of the date and time of our 2nd H1N1 vaccination clinic.

[sovereign]

I will not, under any circumstance, be drinking any of the government cocktails. Anyone attempting to give me a shot- will be shot.

That is all I have to say about that.

[bigfoot]

When your doctor mentions that even THEY are hesitating to get the H1N1 vaccine, it makes you stand up and take notice.

[SuperBadger]

My dad works for Providence Portland and is going to recieve the vaccine today (not sure if it's mandatory....probably not). I'll keep you posted.

[Brotzie]

IIRC, a population needs about 30% immunity to avoid a pandemic. H1N1 is 'just' flu - it's far from pleasant but mortality is 'only' about one in 200 - so, if your kids are otherwise healthy (i.e., no underlying medical conditions that would give cause for concern such as asthma), I'd say let some other schmucks load themselves up with stuff to retard the wildfire spread of H1N1 that's widely expected to hit soon and trust to the Lord in his infinite mercy for the rest. That's my strategy, anyway...

All the best, Ian

[Steelworker]

Not an MD, but I have read two blogs by MD's and both are against the vaccine. They suggested, separately, the same preventive measures:

Buy yourself some Vitamin D3 -- it must be D3, not the doctor prescribed D2. I use Carlson brand as they seem especially stringent in their quality reqs. Anyway, children should take 2000 IU a day, women should take 4000 IU a day and men should take 6000 IU a day. After a few months you can get a 25 Hydroxy Vitamin D test. You want your numbers in the 60 to 80 range. My test showed me at 69 and I take 6000 IU a day. I also take Nordic Naturals Omega 3, upwards of 3300 mg a day. The Vitamin D3 from Carlson is dirt cheap and definitely increases the D3 in your bloodstream as my test validates.

For those of us over 40 or anyone under 40 who doesn't get at least 20 minutes a day outdoors in the sunshine, you need to supplement your diet with D3. It is a great immune booster, in addition to many other benefits, and even if you get the flu while taking it, the symptoms will be less and for a shorter duration.

Being allergic to eggs, flu shots are out for me anyway.

As with all things, YMMV. My wife, brother, father, and I have had great results. My brother had a heart attack. I suggested the D3 and Omega 3. His latest results surprised the doctors and he's doing far better than expected and says he feels better than he has in years. My dad has a congenital heart defect that leads by your mid-fifties to leaky valve(s) in your heart. The docs have done everything short of surgery and I finally convinced my mom to try D3 and fish oil. His last set of tests showed the leakage to be significantly improved -- in fact, almost normal! (the calcium has been cut down by the D3 and put in the body where it's needed), and he got the best results in many, many years. Of the two MD's I got this from, one is a cardiologist. By the way, my dad did it without any cholesterol lowering meds.

I hesitate to put this here, as I expect lots of debunking, but all I will say is, try it. If the D3 doesn't work, you're out for no more than $20 and that would be for a 360 capsule bottle! That's cheap PREVENTIVE medicine.

[Buck W]

Based on my reading and research no swine flu shots for me either. I'll second Steelworker on D3. What I've read in the last couple of years has convinced me that one gets the most health benefit for the dollar expended of just about any supplement out there. On a public health basis "free" D3 would have great benefit IMO.

"If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free" P J O'Rourke

[oktec60]

"The need to actively monitor vaccine recipients for vaccine adverse events is critical given that the vaccine candidates will all contain a new antigen and may be combined with adjuvants that are not part of licensed vaccines in the US. Relevant parties of HHS should develop appropriate procedures for linking exposure and outcome data in as large a population base as feasible, including consideration of subpopulations targeted for vaccine use. In order to do this, accurate exposure to vaccine and adjuvant type for each dose administered (with lot numbers, if possible) must be linked to outcome data. The current vaccine safety infrastructure is unlikely to be sufficient to accomplish this."
http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/H1N1SubgroupRecommendationsVSMJuly2009.html


The method of manufacture of the antigen, and the especially the adjuvants used, is what seems to concern most of the writers of the papers that I've read. With this vaccine the antigen manufacture method has been rushed with unproven techniques that supposedly have a potential to be dangerous. Also, some of the adjuvants are known to be dangerous, while others are still experimental and thus unlicensed, but I'm sure the licensing part will be fixed before it is used - but again rushed.

[David in OR]

I'm not particularly paranoid about the vaccine, but I'll second the recommendation of Vit D3. It has a lot of things going for it. I use it for treating the NW winter doldrums (Seasonal Affective Disorder); for that it's been found to be as effective as the "grow lights" used by folks who get really down. It's also a preventative for various forms of cancer. Recent research suggests that the current RDA is way too low, and most folks are Vit D deficient.

[Bushcraft]

My wife, who works in some of the best and worst hospitals in Seattle (in terms of patient type), has refused the shot...as have many of the physicians and other medical professionals she works with closely.

[mark s]

As far as I understand the big issue with H1N1 virus is that it is new. If it were to mutate into a more lethal strain, it would be a big, big problem (think epidemic of spanish flu, 1918). It seems to spread very readily but not be particularly nasty symptom wise. It seems to infect younger people more readily, perhaps because it is more similar to past viruses (also swine related) of the 1950's and 1960's to which older people have immunity.

As far as the vaccine is concerned, it is made just like each years flu vaccine. Because the virus is very different from common human flu viruses is probably not going to affect the side effects compared to each years flu vaccine. This vaccine does not contain new adjuvants. I am fairly certain that the only flu vaccines currently used in the US only contain Al-oxides as adjuvants (very weak, less like to cause side effects).

As far as getting this vaccine, I personally would base it on whether you normally get a yearly flu shot. If you have medical reasons to be sure to protect yourself from getting the flu, I would get it. If you are only thinking of it because of the hype, I would not get it. (This is making the assumption that the virus does not mutate into a more pathogenic form.)

My opinion/2 cents.

[SuperBadger]

I heard that older folks (40+) aren't really being encouraged to get the vaccine because they may already have some immunity to the virus.

[snakey2]

I do not intend to get the shot. When the government recommends something I usually avoid it. I'm also in the older group and remember the flu of the past, I wouldn't like getting it but won't be too worried if I do. I also remember the scare around 74 which Ford (then Pres.) and the gov. pushed big time, it was a big bust.

[Tracy]

I've never had a regular flu shot (and don't plan to start). I've always felt being smart about washing hands, etc. would do just fine & so far I've stayed well. I think the last time I had the flu was about 7 years ago. I see no reason to change my opinion on the shot, just because there's a gov't induced panic about a new strain, so I will not be getting any kind of shot for h1n1 either. If more docs were pushing this, I might listen, but when those like Bushcraft's wife & docs she works with are refusing it, it makes me quite suspicious of the vaccine.

Since I work solely from home in the winter months, my exposure to the public is minimal, but Randy has the potential to bring home all kinds of nasty stuff because he hops from Dr office to Dr office for his profession--places that are crawling with all manner of yuck this time of year. He does not get a flu shot either and is rarely sick. He washes his hands often, goes through hand sanitizer like a madman, and is mindful of where bugs can be picked up. For example, he does not pick up dr office magazines, but brings his own reading material.

To Evan's question, I don't know how I feel about kids getting the shot. They usually are more likely to get sick, usually are in closer contact with larger groups in a school environment, and usually aren't always careful about sanitation. However, I still don't know that I would sign a release for the shot unless we were seeing large numbers dropping like flies from the swine flu. We aren't seeing that.

[disillusionedpatriot]

I don't like the idea of getting the flu or of getting shot, so the combination, a "flu shot," has always been something I've declined.

This new one is nasal isn't it? Can't say I'm attracted to the idea of someone spraying some weird stuff into my nose either.

Just standing in line with the general random public queued up to get these shots sounds like a risk.

Recently watched a show about the Salk live polio vaccines, and how a bunch of the early batches were bad, resulting in actual polio cases from them.

At least in the 1950's actual private companies did the work. Who's doing the work on these vaccines? The government? I'd trust the private sector more than the government.

[mark s]

Evidently, there are dramatic differences on what different school districts are doing for the H1N1 virus. In Cleveland, there are no plans for the schools to be involved with immunizing children. In Cincinnati, they are planning to offer immunizations to all the children even though they do not have the vaccine yet to do so. In Ohio the first vaccine will go to people with health issues and to first responders (doctors, nurses etc.). I think the reaction in Cincinnati has to do to news coverage of several kids dying (perhaps due to other underlying conditions).

The nasal vaccine is a weakened virus vaccine. This specific vaccine seems to give a stronger response in kids. The shots are killed virus vaccine and it seems to give a stronger response in adults.

As my dad always said, WASH YOUR HANDS!

[one-eyed Bob]

If I take care of you in the hospital, would you want me to have had a flu shot? This is a good discussion. I don't trust the government much, but physicians try to search out the truth wherever it leads. Time has been short, however, but we remember the many deaths from previous pandemics. You can't measure deaths that don't occur, so this is a loser for health care leaders and they will look as if they pushed and unneeded vaccine if it works well.

[Jim N]

I have it on good authority that, buried deep within the vaccine is a gene which causes it's victim to drink lattes (with flavor!) & vote democratic.

Beware!

[BuckarooMedic]

As a healthcare worker who has an asthmatic son, I am definitely going to get the H1N1 shot. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as some one once said. The H1N1 seems to be targeting adolescent and young adults. Luckily I'm over the age to be worried about it. But, I'm still going to get the shot so as not to spread the flu and also to improve the "heard" resistance of our population. If you're vaccinated, you're probably not going to get it and thus not spread it. Remember, these vaccines are "dead", but they trigger an immune response in the body. That's why people say they still got the flu after they got vaccinated. The H1N1 vaccine is being produced by the same companies who produce the yearly flu vaccine (and many of the other vaccines we get) under the same conditions, safety procedures and scrutiny that the other vaccines receive. The only thing that was expedited about this vaccine is that is was produce sooner than originally planned. Those, very few, physicians who are saying that they would not recommend the vaccine are definitely entitled to their learned opinions. I personally think they are doing a disservice to their patients and the public. The vast majority of physicians that I have talked to are getting the vaccine themselves and advising their "at risk" patient populations to get it also. If you're around pregnant women, kids, and those who have chronic medical conditions; you should really seriously consider getting vaccinated against the flu.

The biggest thing that one can do, to not get the flu, is wash your hands, sneeze/cough into your sleeve or a tissue and stay home if you get sick. Again, an ounce of prevention. Go to the doctor/ER if you start to have difficulty breathing, especially if you start to turn blue or ashen color, or get better than get really sick again. Already the ER/clinics around here are filling up with people who think they have H1N1. The hospitals in the area have actually set-up "flu tents" outside the ERs just to handle the huge increase in patients complaining of "flu-like" signs and symptoms, and to segregate these people from those in the hospital. These folks who go to the ER/doctor office for the "flu" two or three days after they have had the signs and symptoms do two things; one they clog an already over burdened system and two they expose all the other people around them to whatever they have.

[revelation2012]

The H1N1 vaccine is being produced by the same companies who produce the yearly flu vaccine (and many of the other vaccines we get) under the same conditions, safety procedures and scrutiny that the other vaccines receive. The only thing that was expedited about this vaccine is that is was produce sooner than originally planned.

From what I have read this vaccine was awarded to Baxter. Earleir this year they shipped several vaccines for testing with live H5N1 and luckly it was tested be for trials began. Even after this WHO awarded Baxter with contract to produce the vaccine for the H1N1. It apparently has all the stuff in it that is responsible for Gulf War syndrom. If anyone looks into the background of who Baxter is they are child company of the parent firm bayer who is a child of IG FARBEN. This company used slave labor during the NAZI halocaust and participated some of the horrific crimes of WWII.

Rockefeller foundation is the funder of World Health Organization and he is one in the same who brought you the Federal Reserve, the Council on Foriegn Relations and a proponent of population reduction and the New World Order. He is also quited as saying:


Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded, not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but also in fostering a high morale and cummunity propose. The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history. -New York Times 1973.


We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during these years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government which will never again know war, but only peace and prosperity for the whole of humanity. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in the past centuries.
The meeting of the Trilateral Commission (June 1991)


For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.
Page 405 of Rockefeller's autobiography, "Memoirs", ISBN-13: 978-0812969733.

There is just too much evidence, at least to me, that there is more harm and risk in the vaccine than the H1N1 flu which apparently has killed far less than the regular flu. I just find it very convienient this is all coming about at the time the world has basically dumped the dollar and rejected it wholesale internationally. I think your going to need to worry about rapid loss in your purchasing power and life savings. see here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html and here http://www.kitco.com/ind/willie/oct082009.html

I think this is going to be used as a case for quaratining people in their homes in the midst of massive economic cahos that is about to hit.

IG FARBEN/BAXTER http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben_Trial
Note the link if IG FARBEN and STANDARD OIL (Rockefeller)
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+crimes+of+I.G.+Farben:+during+WWII,+I.G.+Farbe n,+a...-a0155664513

Vaccines as Biological Weapons? Live Avian Flu Virus Placed in Baxter Vaccine Materials Sent to 18 Countries
http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html

Biterrorism Charges against WHO
http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html

What's the Danger of Swine Flu Vaccinations?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14851

[Ralph]

So, this vaccine is suspect because it is produced by a company that is a spin-off of a company that was a spin-off of I.G. Farben, involved in the use of slave labor during WWII? And their purpose in peddling a bogus/contaminated vaccine is what? Population control? Setting us up for quarantine? Creating world-wide disaster? Whatever it is, they are directed to do so by the Rockefeller Foundation? Is that what you are saying here or am I missing some significant point?

[Countryboy]

So, this vaccine is suspect because it is produced by a company that is a spin-off of a company that was a spin-off of I.G. Farben, involved in the use of slave labor during WWII? And their purpose in peddling a bogus/contaminated vaccine is what? Population control? Setting us up for quarantine? Creating world-wide disaster? Whatever it is, they are directed to do so by the Rockefeller Foundation? Is that what you are saying here or am I missing some significant point?

Sounds like what he's saying to me, with the possible exception of being directed by the Rockefeller foundation. But before we raise a hue and cry that he is another wacko conspiracy theorist, note that he did post quotes from relevant people and organizations to somewhat back his opinion. It is not unbelievable to me that the PTB would raise a scare about a minor virus in order to set the stage for poopulation control, whether that means simple quarantine of troublemakers during a crisis, or elimination of 'undesirable' sections of the population.

We have a President who has for years associated with, and sat in meetings with, people who blatantly stated that they were unopposed to the idea of re-educating Americans, and would eliminate up to 50 million who could not be re-educated. He has stocked the White House with tax cheats, convicted felons, avowed communists, and homo***uals. Only a blind man would believe that there is not an evil plot afoot in this nation, indeed the world, and it is but a short leap of logic from there to realize that something this government blows all out of proportion might have a certain amount of relevance to the bigger picture.

As for the shot, me and mine will NOT be accepting it, or any other shot the .gov tells us we must have to stave off the 'monsters' they create out of minor viruses.

[Ralph]

I'll admit I'd be happier with fewer loonies in the White House.

As for the vaccine, my physician is knowledgeable, cares about his patients and is a friend. I'll take his advise on the matter.

I don't recall ever having the flu, in fact, I have very few common colds in my lifetime. However, I usually get a flu shot and other vaccines as my physician recommends since I am now 70, and already have breathing problems. Make your own choice, that's mine.

[evanhill]

As for the vaccine, my physician is knowledgeable, cares about his patients and is a friend. I'll take his advise on the matter.


What is his advice specifically regarding the h1n1 vaccine?

Thanks everyone else for your thoughts so far.

[Ralph]

I haven't asked him yet. I have an appointment for my annual physical in a couple of weeks so we'll see then.

[one-eyed Bob]

An article today in the NYT says that this vaccine was produced exactly like the previous vaccines with no additional additives or shortcuts. The antigens are specific for H1N1 which means that it should be more effective than the annual shots which are a guess of what strains will be upcoming. 76 children have died in recent months from this flu. It is not a joke.

[Tracy]

...76 children have died in recent months from this flu. It is not a joke.

And how many have died in car accidents in recent months? Riding in a car is dangerous, that is not a joke. Do we wrap ourselves in bubble wrap and refuse to travel by auto? No.

There are risks in life. Period. Choosing to not get the vaccine does not mean you are sealing your death warrant. A person would probably have more of a chance of survival by refusing to ride in a car ever again than they would by getting vaccinated for h1n1.

[gdw042]

My wife is on the tail end of being sick with H1N1. Healthy adult female, went to Dr. when she started feeling sick, got the medication she needed, stayed home. She's fine.

Both of my children are feeling a little sick and will go to the Dr. on Tue. Healthy children, no additional medical problems. I'm not all that concerned.

A friend's child has been on O2 all week with it, but he has asthma.

Having said that, I do have a distant friend who just died from H1N1. Yes, it's tragic that she died, but people die from the flu every year.

A global conspiracy orchestrated by liberals in the US government to control population and ensure obediance in future actions?

Seriously?

Or the media blowing a story out of the water for ratings?

GDW

[Tracy]

...Or the media blowing a story out of the water for ratings?

GDW

I think you've nailed it.

[one-eyed Bob]

I think that what you don't factor in, is that NOBODY is immune to this virus. That is why a small percentage of deaths, particularly among the young, can be terrible. I certainly understand an independent streak, however, please don't lead others astray to their detriment, or to the detriment of those they wish to protect. ibob

[Otoejet]

I'm going to throw in here as all four of us (two asthmatic adults and two otherwise healthy kids) just spent a week to ten days with this H1N1. It's pretty damned bad! I have pretty poor lung health as it is: asthma diagnosed as 7 years old and living at altitude is not perfect. Any way, I never got the Tamiflu, but my wife did. It helped with her fever and body aches, but she's on a 10 day run of prednizone (steriods for those who don't know) for her lung function. Both kids ran fevers for 5 days. THere's nothing worse than watching a kid go through this kind of thing. I was sick enough that I missed antelope season! That's sick.

For what it's worth, I'd get your kids the shot...As for adults, do your thing.

[Sawtooth]

Hope you and yours are doing better. Our middle girl has it now, but is feeling better tonight. Seeing her with such a high fever scares the hell out of me.

[Otoejet]

Sawtooth,
Appreciate the thoughts. As is usual, the kids recover the quickest, so their back to school and playing outside the minute they get home. I reached my goal of health and leave tomorrow morning for the mountains. The Wapiti are calling.

[Sawtooth]

Best of luck to you. Good to hear you regained your health in time to hunt elk!

[revelation2012]

So, this vaccine is suspect because it is produced by a company that is a spin-off of a company that was a spin-off of I.G. Farben, involved in the use of slave labor during WWII? And their purpose in peddling a bogus/contaminated vaccine is what? Population control? Setting us up for quarantine? Creating world-wide disaster? Whatever it is, they are directed to do so by the Rockefeller Foundation? Is that what you are saying here or am I missing some significant point?

As country boy said, basically yes. I don't profess to know all the particulars but have seen enough controversial reports regarding this vaccine that I am very scpetical and do not trust this govt. nor any other as far as I can throw them. A lot is being shuffled behind the scenes right now and there are some desperate people right now that are the ones who really control what is going on. I would be very supprised if what you know as the United States and the Dollar to be anything you recognize it to be by this time next year. Basically if the news (inlcuding the beloved conservative FOX news) is saying this is good for you, consider it a lie. Media is completely controlled. I may be wrong and hope I am but I don't think so. This country cannot survive with its corrupt ways and printing fiat money and producing nothing. Once the cat is out of the bag, you will see people hitting the streets in deperation when they relaize their life savings has amounted to nothing. China and Russsia as we have seen recently are bonding to become the dominant power in the coming future. I see H1N1 as a control mechanizm.

I would also like to point you to a 60 mintues interview that was banned in the 1970s after 1976 vaccination attempt.

Take a look here: http://www.examiner.com/x-6495-US-Intelligence-Examiner~y2009m7d10-CBS-60-Minutes-300-death-claims-from-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-only-one-death-from-flu

Also you better do as much research as you can as there is coming an attempt to curtail access to the internet. As things spin out of control this may be implemented. Note the name of the person who has proposed this bill:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s773/show

BTW - Rumsfeld is a major fiancial holder in Tamiflu and will profit hasdsomly

[Ralph]

On the one narrow point of the flu vaccine, as I said, I will discuss this with my doctor at my annual physical next week and will likely take his advice since I doubt he wants to kill me.

Yes, we could do with less corruption and more restraint and intelligence in congress. I do not believe it a good idea to paint with too broad a brush and condemn the country generally. Most of the folks I know don't engage in criminal conduct and are not very tolerant of those that do. And while I would like to see more employment, it is well to remember that 10% unemployment means that 90% of the people who want to work are working.

I am also highly skeptical that some secret cabal has such an extreme understanding of the global economy that they are able to control and manipulate it.

"BTW - Rumsfeld is a major fiancial holder in Tamiflu and will profit hasdsomly"

So? Are you implying that Rumsfeld is running around infecting people with flu?

[oktec60]

10% unemployment means that 90% of the people who want to work are working.

Actually the number is closer to 17%. The other 7% are those who want to work a full time job, but have either given up looking, or have accepted part time work in its place. Those numbers don't count the large group of folks who are Social Security eligible and have decided to take that route earlier than they had planned.

[Ralph]

Okay, so I oversimplified the numbers. The point I was trying to make is the old half-full/half-empty perspective. Looking at only one side can make anything look good or look bad. Even at "full" employment there are 2-3% unemployed for any number of reasons. You really have to be careful not to make a situation into a self-fulfilling prophesy. The biggest problem in the 1930s was widespread lack of faith in the future. Banks wouldn't loan because they thought they would not be repaid. Businesses didn't invest because they thought they would fail. The result was economic paralysis.

If most folks get to thinking that everything is going to hell and there is no hope of fixing the problem that will likely turn out to be true to some extent. I'm not saying be a pollyanna and ignore problems what I am saying is to be aware that all problems have solutions, though they may not be simple.

[revelation2012]

If career congress is not gutted and the Federal Reserve is left intact, nothing will change. If the Fed is killed you can cut the head off the snake. The system that was created here in the US in 1913 is what has controlled Europe for centuries under the money masters. Chop of the head of the snake and the free money that buys politicians will end. But I tell you the closer you get for reaching for the head of that snake, the more desperate and vicious it can lash out.


Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws. — Mayer Amsched Rothchild

back to H1N1 - everyone should educate THEMSELVES on what this vaccine and virus is all about. Don't reply on one source and for God sakes don't rely on TV media. My research shows me this may point back to Ft Deitrech.

[Countryboy]

Okay, so I oversimplified the numbers. The point I was trying to make is the old half-full/half-empty perspective. Looking at only one side can make anything look good or look bad. Even at "full" employment there are 2-3% unemployed for any number of reasons. You really have to be careful not to make a situation into a self-fulfilling prophesy. The biggest problem in the 1930s was widespread lack of faith in the future. Banks wouldn't loan because they thought they would not be repaid. Businesses didn't invest because they thought they would fail. The result was economic paralysis.

If most folks get to thinking that everything is going to hell and there is no hope of fixing the problem that will likely turn out to be true to some extent. I'm not saying be a pollyanna and ignore problems what I am saying is to be aware that all problems have solutions, though they may not be simple.

Very much in agreement with you on this aspect, Ralph. I have friends who have done exactly this in their personal lives, and if we do it as a nation, we are doomed. However, we must be vigilant, and as previously stated, take our responsibility to our families seriously by studying for ourselves what is what, but maintain a cool head and realistic attitude while doing so.

On a side note, I love the atmosphere in this forum. On other forums, opposing veiwpoints on a subject like this usually cause a thread to degenerate into more of a battle than a civilzed and thoughtful conversation. It speaks to the maturity and civility of the members here that such things rarely, if ever happen here. Thanks to everyone for your contribution to such a civil tone.

[Ralph]

The forum atmosphere is the reason so many of us are here and stay here. The guys I've met personally are all of a type - mature, quiet, thoughtful, gentle men, devoted to their families and friends and to their love of the outdoors - and good gear. I'd happily hit the trail with any of them.

[steveb]

Well, now I (and son) got it too. Missing out on some great conditions for camping/hiking, as it's perfect this time of year. Doc says he doesn't know if it's H1N1 for sure, but probably is (they don't test for specific strain unless you have to go to the hospital). Been down a few days and will have to miss my next trip.

Started out as just a sinus/head ache. Next day, that went away only to replaced by fatigue and chills. Fever up to 101 F on day 3. Temp is now lo-grade (99.5)
with sporadic dry cough and marked fatigue..not much appetite either. I feel ok in AM but tire quickly after noon. Those are my symptoms, others may be quite different.

I guess this will be my 'flu shot' so to speak.

[one-eyed Bob]

This is the argument, the virus is usually limited in severity but nobody is immune so there will be many cases and some will be severe. If most people are immunized we can stop it from spreading, even to some who are not immunized. You takes your choice.

[revelation2012]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hYeJL1SmNM

[one-eyed Bob]

I was innoculated today, and I gave my wife one too. Vaccine, that is.

[jack]

In 1900, in the United States, half the live births died before the age of 5 years, mostly
of infectious disease. One of my Grandmother's sisters died in the 1918 pandemic.

My mother (in the 30s) had classmates who died from Rheumatic Fever & Whooping Cough.

This is no longer the case, thanks to immunization & clean water.

No prophylactic measure is risk-free - The numbers game is unsettling enough when you
feel you understand it....

Jack

[andyoz]

I quite agree with the recommendations regarding vitamins, especially at this time of year.

I've had the 'flu jab as I'm (pretty much) required to do so, as has my better half and most of the youngsters.
However I did speak to someone involved in it's release and development in Europe and he and his family had taken it. I am pretty sure he isn't part of a plot to take over the world.
If my Governemmnt wanted to administer population control they missed the boat with me, anyway they could flood the London Tube network with X-rays or something surely. :P

[revelation2012]

Former Finland Official speaks out regarding vaccines and corruption

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okM1wRvbXjE

[revelation2012]

TERESA FORCADES, doctor in Public Health, reflects on the history, and gives scientific data, of A type flu and lists all the irregularities related to this subject.

She explains the consequences of the declaration of a PANDEMIC, the political consequences from this declaration and makes a proposal to keep calm. She calls for an urgent activation of all legal mechanism and the participation of all citizens in this matter.

Big thanks to Marta Cobos (gripeArtificial), Marina, Paula Hernandez and Amalia, whose help made it possible to publish this version with English subtitles.

http://www.vimeo.com/7298827

[Elmo]

I live in NYC and take public transportation every day. To top it off I got adult onset asthma/

I got the H1N1 shot last week. I went home expecting the world to end. It didn't! I guess the vaccine is safe; at least for me.

A few other cautions:
• I carry hand wipes in my EDC
• I have Hand Sanitizers in my Kitchen and Bathroom
• I try to avoid crowds. This has upped my daily walking to 4+ miles. Healthy, I suppose.
• I cancelled a few plane trips. I can deal with being sick at home but not in a hotel room.


My niece's 4 year old came down with the flu as did an architect I am working with. It's not very far away.

[revelation2012]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33845867/ns/health-cold_and_flu


Va. teen suffers rare illness after swine flu shot
Boy diagnosed with Guillain-Barre syndrome, but CDC says no clear link

By JoNel Aleccia
Health writer
msnbc.com
updated 10:57 a.m. MT, Thurs., Nov . 12, 2009


A 14-year-old Virginia boy is weak and struggling to walk after coming down with a reported case of Guillain-Barre syndrome within hours after receiving the H1N1 vaccine for swine flu.

Jordan McFarland, a high school athlete from Alexandria, Va., left Inova Fairfax Hospital for Children Tuesday night in a wheelchair nearly a week after developing severe headaches, muscle spasms and weakness in his legs following a swine flu shot. He will likely need the assistance of a walker for four to six weeks, plus extensive physical therapy.

“The doctor said I’ll recover fully, but it’s going to take some time,” the teenager said.

[Elmo]

how many millions of shots were given,a few anecdotal examples are not the basis of epidemiological studies

http://www.cdc.gov/Flu/protect/keyfacts.htm
read a bit on this link

ultimately you must decide what is best for you and your family. I choose to go along with the overwhelming evidence that the shots may help.

[Elmo]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125805415147345801.html


You may want to read this article from Friday's Wall street Journal. It says in part:


An estimated 22 million Americans have been sickened with swine flu since April and 3,900 have died, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday, as shipments of vaccine fell behind government predictions.

[Koop]

Started out as just a sinus/head ache. Next day, that went away only to replaced by fatigue and chills. Fever up to 101 F on day 3. Temp is now lo-grade (99.5)
with sporadic dry cough and marked fatigue..not much appetite either. I feel ok in AM but tire quickly after noon. Those are my symptoms, others may be quite different.

I guess this will be my 'flu shot' so to speak.

It looks like it's my turn. I woke up with a sore throat on Sunday, followed by that sinus/headache. I wouldn't be surprised if I had the beginnings of a fever at this point, and I'm starting to get a runny nose.

I'm trying to keep up my vitamins and electrolytes, get enough fluids, and plenty of rest. Oh, and I'm gargling Listerine to discourage the bug from setting up shop in my throat. Other than that, and continuing to stay in shape, I doubt if I can do much else to fight sickness.

[Elmo]

IIRC, mortality is 'only' about one in 200

I suppose it's good news if you are one of the 199. Not so good if you are the 1.

[duckear]

I had my swine flu shot on Wednesday.

Still here.


;)