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M Paulsen
09-22-2009, 08:52 AM
Not sure if this should go in the politics forum or here, but anyhoo, I was just web surfing and came across a forum called MonsterMuleys. It's full of posts about trophy hunting among other things. Not necessarily my king of place but there is some useful stuff here and there. So I found this post, which turned my stomach. It is basically a guy bragging in public about the trophy bull he shot at 12 times before finally killing it. The really sick thing is that there are about 90 more posts congratulating the guy on a job well done...and maybe one negative post. The negative poster was rebuked and apparently removed his post. I usually ignore this kind of stuff, but found myself asking: is this what hunting has come to? Is this now the norm? I know that Kifaru people are in the minority, but are we really such a tiny minority? I think a generation ago nobody would even speak about something like this in public, and if they did they would be universally condemned. Am I now so far out of the mainstream? Here is the post. Tell me what you think.

"...I saw a couple of 320 bulls and knew instantly they were not shooters. I noticed movement below all the elk and with my naked eye at 600 yards I could tell I was looking at the type of bull I'd been looking for. I quickly started looking for a place to put my pack down on for a shooting rest. As I was doing this Brock was coming down toward me. I told him to get his butt down there and shoot ranges for me. He said wait so I can get him in the spotting scope and make sure he's a shooter. I told him there wasn't time and that I was going to shoot a monster. About that time he noticed the bull and started flipping out. At this point the 600 yard range was read and brock kept saying don't shoot, calm down your shaking way to bad to hit anything. Well I pulled the trigger to only hear the snap of the firing pin. Good thing cuz I flinched so bad I would have missed him by several yards lol. I quickly chambered a round and jerked the trigger again. The bullet went miles over his back. Brock was upset and said you got to calm down your breathing isn't even normal and you can't talk right. Well I jacked another round and wedged the gun in a crevice to act as a vice. Good thing cuz the crosshairs weren't moving even when I flinched and jerked the trigger again. That round dead centered his neck and send him peeling off the cows. After that I shot 9 more times at the bull at ranges I had very good drop charts for. Every time I flinched and slapped the trigger due to bull fever. I have never been such a nervous wreck. At one point I also barely missed sending a round over the hill as I was repositioning the gun for another shot because my trigger finger was even shaking so bad. Well we waited the wounded bull out for two hours and then proceeded in to find out what happened. Brock was sure he knew where the bull was last seen so I followed him ignoring what I thought was a good spot to look at. Bobcatbess thought other wise. He stopped, pulled out his binos, looked up the ridge and said there he is and he's running over the ridge. He was only 40 yards away. well I ran up the ridge to get a look and could hear him running up the other side. Bessy was right behind me. I took the first shot offhand at 250 yards and missed. I quickly found a good rest and waited for him to turn broad side and put one dead center of the guts. The bullet ripped into on side and left a fist sized hole on the other side and liquified lungs gut and everything else. He turned up the hill and offered a quarters shot so I broke down his rear running gear. 30 seconds later he was dead. Coolest thing about it is that my awesome spotter slamdunk watched the whole thing in the spotting scope as bobcatbess, the man himself, was watching over my shoulder..."

The link is http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID12/11264.html

rt014
09-22-2009, 09:22 AM
That jack-azz is part of the reason why there are 'anti-hunters'.

snakey2
09-22-2009, 09:30 AM
"the round dead centered his neck".... BS if it had dead centered his neck it would be dead then and there. Embarrassing is mild for this story.

William Clunie
09-22-2009, 09:37 AM
Some folks consider this hunting. It sounds more like shooting to me.

Jim N
09-22-2009, 09:42 AM
& we wonder why hunters have an image problem.

Scoutin' Wyo
09-22-2009, 09:43 AM
Not my cup-o-tea. I don't think that type of story should be on a public forum. HUGE gasoline jug for the anti's.

After reading some of the original thread, it looks like a stereotypical more money than sense slob to me. But that is just my opinion and I'm sure there is someone out there that has read my elk story and thinks that I'm a joke too.

CCH
09-22-2009, 10:17 AM
Ugh, I'm not "lol" in the slightest.

moho
09-22-2009, 10:33 AM
Seems to me it's part of the commercial hunting culture where the toys, the killing and the narcissism are the focus instead of the meat or the value of the experience. Animals as moving targets. There have been some interesting studies and commentaries distinguishing those three types of hunters in the last few years. Other obscenities include snuff films on the Outdoor channel with a camo-clad, bubble butt babe in a tree stand sticking a baited bear with an arrow. What a triumph!! Arrogant urbanites paying big outfitters to fly-in, make a canned kill of some "trophy" and fly out in a few hours. I have a friend who quit the guide biz over just such incidents.

Indeed, that sort of thing is not only killing hunting itself, but is dragging other shooting sports and gun rights down with it. The shooter (not hunter) in the post should not have a license IMO.

SuperBadger
09-22-2009, 10:48 AM
I wish that story wasn't true.

HiCntry
09-22-2009, 10:55 AM
I've frequented that site mostly for info and some of the stories(some are pretty good). It's like most internet forums, you often have to wade through the crap to find the good stuff. Likewise, as is true of many internet forums, some people and personalities enjoy the attention they can get in their little slice of the www. Not everyone there is all bad but the signal to noise ratio is much higher there than at a place like this, which draws a more well reasoned crowd.

Otoejet
09-22-2009, 11:00 AM
Let's say we drop the shooter off in a wilderness area with a .270, ten rounds of ammo, a fully packed Kifaru set up including SuperTarp, and a side arm and see what happens. This would certainly be fun to see.

This kind of idiocy drives me crazy!!

OLDGOAT
09-22-2009, 11:12 AM
+1 for Otoejet's idea.
Except I will take the full Kifaru rig. He probably wouldn't appreciate it.

evanhill
09-22-2009, 11:18 AM
Here's something I've mused about. We drew deer tags last year in a unit with very little roadless area, but it is close to where we live and there are a lot of deer in there. We went into the middle of a roadless area and hunted from there.

At any rate, on the way in there was a camp just about every quarter mile along the road, each with a minimum of four hunters in it. Generators, RVs, quads, etc. Quite a few more hunters than deer. Whenever we happened to pass these camps during what I would think of as hunting hours, there were people in camp -- not out hunting. When we were scouting the area during bow season, with two exceptions, every single bowhunter we saw was road hunting. How are you supposed to road hunt with a bow?

The question is whether these guys are really hunting or just using hunting season as an excuse to go party in the woods without their wives?

Relative to this thread, I wonder how many "hunters" are actually hunting or just hanging out in camp and doing some driving around from time to time? Obviously the guys in the original post got into some elk and shot one. There are certainly going to be some "hunters" who fall into that category. Beyond that, how many of the guys in the woods during hunting season are actively hunting?

Ksnake
09-22-2009, 11:44 AM
This is why I hate the concept of trophy hunting. It breeds this mentality. Just because the rack is big doesn’t mean you know how to hunt. The only experience those idiots have are from watching hunting shows on TV where it's all about the rack. What a joke! I wish one of those 9 fliers had shot an antler off and turned his 320 "shooter" into Half-A-Monster. What a loser.

Lost Arra
09-22-2009, 12:03 PM
Maybe I'm naive but are we sure this MonsterMuley post was legit?

Every single sentence comes across as a parody on slob trophy hunting.

We can only hope and pray it's a spoof.

M Paulsen
09-22-2009, 12:16 PM
Dead serious. Sickeningly serious. The link leads to the thread, with photos. Other previous threads about this hunt are there too.

Otoejet
09-22-2009, 12:47 PM
I just had a horrifying thought: what if this guy has kids that he wants to take "hunting"?

scothill
09-22-2009, 01:08 PM
I just had a horrifying thought: what if this guy has kids that he wants to take "hunting"?

Look at the pics he already did.

I guess I have to say I understand why he is excited about that bull it is a nice one. I have to even give him kudos for giving the whole story. However, in my opinion he should have never made any of the shots, based on his own description, and I sure wouldn't be braggin about that shooting or hunt. Heck, I would be doing it as a don't do this it ain't worth it type thing. It amazes me how many people are congratulating him, and not taking him to task. I though about joining to do that, but it ain't worth it.

Steelworker
09-22-2009, 01:49 PM
When I lived in the South Bend, IN area, the father-in-law of a friend invited me to go deer hunting with him. The entire morning going to and from the hunting stands was filled with these kinds of stories. Finally, I looked at him and asked, "Do you have any friends who know how to shoot? He knew from the tone in my voice what I meant and I was never asked to go again, which was fine with me.

In '85 I took the advice of the LGS and went to a certain hunting reserve in Tennessee for wild boar. Shucks, the whole details of the one moron would take all day to write, but the short of it was:

1. He hadn't sighted his Browning 92 44 mag in before the hunt
2. Never listened to anything the guides said PRIOR to the hunt and therefore:
3. Nearly shot one of the guides dogs,
4. His first shot hit the boar at less than 25 yards in the ham!!!!
5. His second shot, at less than seven yards, with the dogs holding the boar at bay, hit it in the stomach.
6. The guide, obviously irritated, finally cut the poor animals throat.
7. My wife saw all this and it sickened her that such a lamebrain would be allowed in the woods (How'd he make it to work each day?).

I still have the bullet from my boar -- 25 yards and running at an angle flat out. One shot from a 44 mag. M29 Smith.

In '93 three of us paid a guide in Wyoming to take us on a trophy mule deer/antelope hunt. When we got in the area for the mulies, another guide, the head of the Wyoming Outfitters Association at the time and a complete and total jerk, infringed on our area and simply dropped off a dozen or so hunters and left them on their own. Gunfire was everywhere. We had a guide for every two of us, while the intruding group were simply dropped off and hunted and shot whereever they pleased. More than once we heard rounds that appeared too close for comfort. At one point in the day a fellow came over and asked us if we'd finish off his deer, as he was out of ammo. He was using a 300 Savage and had fired something like 35 rounds, hitting the poor mulie at least a dozen times and it was still quite alive. Our guide disgustedly administered the coup de grace. It sickened everyone in the group. What got me about it was the individuals apparent lack of feeling toward the animal and how absolutely stupid he looked to the rest of us.

Songdog
09-22-2009, 03:43 PM
I've heard similar stories too many times. Honestly, that's what drove me to Kifaru though. 12 miles behind you from the last vehicle tends to weed out the types of hunters that you just read about. While in search of gear that got me away from the knuckleheads, I ran across these packs that made it a lot more comfortable and I realized I could pack out an entire deer 12-15 miles. Then they had these heated tipis that were light enough to pack way back in and still let you warm up at the end of the day. The rest is history (and so is my pocketbook, but that's a different story)...

Montanapete1
09-22-2009, 03:53 PM
Coolest thing about it is that my awesome spotter slamdunk watched the whole thing in the spotting scope as bobcatbess, the man himself, was watching over my shoulder..."

Wow, this guy is a real piece of work! I wish I could shoot this low life in the same fashion!

Randy
09-22-2009, 04:06 PM
As to Evan's point...we hunted whitetails in an area with easy public access and lots of closed roads open to foot traffic only. We camped in a trailer in a campground so it would be easier for my dad to get around, and would be more comfortable for him. We hunted hard for the week...meaning in the woods before light, on foot, and trying to find the rascally whitetails. We saw one other guy on foot the entire week. Dad said all the neighboring camps were occupied all day long. I contend that many see hunting season as camping, drinking and getting away from home season.

As for trophy hunting...I'm all for it. If folks want to spend the money for limited tags, outfitters, etc, more power to them. As long as the game is taken legally and the meat does not go to waste. I'm the first guy who would like to knock over a 320+ bull or the mythical 30" muley, but I'm also the first guy to put my name in the hat for antlerless tags and a freezer full of good meat.

The guy on Monster Muleys in my opinion fits the 'slob hunter' definition and just gives ammo to those who would take our sport away.

David in OR
09-22-2009, 04:18 PM
Maybe this is a milksop academic pov (I used to be a milksop academic), but I think this kind of behavior is inevitably more common because most of us are just so much further removed from the land than we used to be. The less day-to-day connection you have with the land and plants and animals, the more authentic-seeming *any* outdoor experience is liable to be. I think this is true for both "hunters" like the ones in the OP as well as anti- and PETA types. Not sure there's a remedy, aside from behavior and talk like that found on this forum. I really appreciate the ethics and attitudes here, and I learn an awful lot.

Bushcraft
09-22-2009, 05:47 PM
This stinkystomper fellow is an embarrassment to responsible and ethical hunters everywhere.

It will be interesting to see how this thread develops....

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID12/11299.html

Songdog
09-22-2009, 05:48 PM
Remedy? The only one that I can think of is to have a few of your own and train them right...

http://home.pacbell.net/jniednag/2-3_days_of_wood.JPG

http://home.pacbell.net/jniednag/James__pig.jpg

http://home.pacbell.net/jniednag/ST_A_frame_kids.jpg

http://home.pacbell.net/jniednag/training_weight.jpg

http://home.pacbell.net/jniednag/kids_at_tejon.jpg

I'm doing my part with 5 ;)

moho
09-22-2009, 05:57 PM
Times have changed but this study still has merit:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/hunting/text/kellert.txt

Changes I see are that the category of "dominion/sport" hunters has deteriorated, and probably expanded, with marketing to the point that it is overwhelmingly about the gear, killing and a forum for urbanites to "prove" themselves. I'm probably a hybrid of "meat" and "nature" hunter in that classification. The pathetic jerk of the original post torques my unit to the max.

evanhill
09-22-2009, 06:14 PM
LOL Allen. We must have entered some sort of wierd twilight zone when you grab an opportunity that Scot passed on to start some **** with some guys from the other side of the street.

Perhaps you will at least give someone over there an opportunity to think things through a bit. So far, it's not looking like it. Maybe some lurkers.

EDIT: And, within an hour or so of your original post, the whole thread has been removed. I guess that shows us what monster mulies is all about. I predict that your post on the original thread will also be removed within minutes.

EDIT2: ... and so it is. Had any communication with the mods over there?

David in OR
09-22-2009, 06:28 PM
I think Kellert's framework is a good one. Can't remember where I first saw it, but it made sense to me then and still does. I think of myself as 90% "nature" and 10% "meat," but that's because I never bring home any meat. lol

Anybody ever read Paul Shepard's _The Tender Carnivore and the Sacred Game_? I keep meaning to get back to it. Maybe I'll reread it and post a summary one of these days.

Songdog, great pics!

GlennGTR
09-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Im with Songdog were working on number four right now and that package will be here in March. My nine ,five and two year old are all gun nuts and latch on to dad like the house was on fire everytime I go out the door to shoot or hunt. I had a coworker that braged about shooting a mule deer at five hundred yards. The way he told it he hit it in the ass first then blew off the front legg before making a decent shot and putting it down. Of course I couldnt keep my big mouth shut and told him if he was going to hunt and shoot long range he might want to get a clue as to what the F!!#$ he was doing first. Him and his compadres looked at me like I was some kind of heathen or cave man. The only reason I come to this site so frequently is because of the quality of people that are here and the amount of respect I see accorded to the game and environment. Maybe we are in the minority but that would just make us the elite in my book. Not saying that were better than the next guy just that this is more than recreation, sport or game to us its what we fundamentaly believe in.

Smokepole
09-22-2009, 07:47 PM
Maybe I'm naive but are we sure this MonsterMuley post was legit?

Every single sentence comes across as a parody on slob trophy hunting.

We can only hope and pray it's a spoof.

I kind of agree with this, I mean, how many real people would lose their sh+* so bad they couldn't even breathe right, looking through a spotting scope at a range of 600 yards?

wyoelk
09-22-2009, 07:58 PM
Smoke, spend a little time over at MM. This retardation has been building all winter with some of those Utards. Sadly, it isnt a spoof.

hunting1
09-22-2009, 08:03 PM
I think it is wide spread and not just MM! Go to Archery Talk, etc. All that siad it is the comercialization that is driving it is true. I hear so many guys who say they will not shoot a bull under 350, 80-yard arrow shots etc. It is sad, but good, bad or indifferent we who truly love the sport need to stand together and deffend even the slobs. My $.02, good shoot'n!

elmbow
09-22-2009, 08:08 PM
I kind of agree with this, I mean, how many real people would lose their sh+* so bad they couldn't even breathe right, looking through a spotting scope at a range of 600 yards?
I'll be the cynic Smokepole and say that there are S H I T loads of people who would do just that. And regardless whether Ole Nimrod can hit a stationary, broadside, Chevy Suburban at 600 yards with his Swarovski topped custom Dakota 7mm STW is academic, he's got the gun, the game, and the opportunity of a lifetime, you damn Skippy he's going to: #1, piss him self, and #2, take the shot (s). Anything to get a world class animal goes and farce or not, the reason it pisses everyone off is because it's just so blatantly immoral. That there are apparently a majority of posters on the other thread that are lauding the man only confirms my point. I believe ALL hunting shows encourage this very kind of mentality, as do rags like Eastman's, Monster Muley's, etc. . I believe "trophy" hunting by itself encourages the attitude that hunting is a competitive sport and size on the hoof equates to size 'twixt the legs. I'll throw in my Christian bias and state flat out, that if at least 90% of the reason you hunt isn't to feed your family, then you are WRONG in the eyes of the God who created the creatures we have dominion over. OMMV, as always.

mark s
09-22-2009, 08:53 PM
The attitude of the monster mulie poster disgusts me (probably the person too if I ever met him).

I've had bad shots, and they bother me. I can't imagine taking 600 yard shots, unless I was sure I could hit them routinely (I can not). I've only lost one deer. Searched for it for 1 1/2 days. I later found that it lived for a month and then died. It really bothered me.

That someone would brag about being a pig shooter (not a shooter of pigs) is beyond me.

FlatbowMB
09-22-2009, 08:56 PM
I'll throw in my Christian bias and state flat out, that if at least 90% of the reason you hunt isn't to feed your family, then you are WRONG in the eyes of the God who created the creatures we have dominion over. OMMV, as always.


I am very much in agreement with that statement, AND am certain that we are overwhelmingly in the minority amongst the general hunting population.

Steelworker
09-22-2009, 09:08 PM
I'll throw in my Christian bias and state flat out, that if at least 90% of the reason you hunt isn't to feed your family, then you are WRONG in the eyes of the God who created the creatures we have dominion over. OMMV, as always.

+2 Very well stated ekmbow.

Bushcraft
09-22-2009, 10:09 PM
I posted the following twice, once as a new thread and once as a reply to the original post. Both were deleted post haste without explanation from moderators. Pretty telling if you ask me.


I’m stunned that stinkystomper has not been roundly denounced by members of this forum for his sickeningly irresponsible behavior.

If not for the hero shot with the dead bull, I would have assumed his recount (the dumbest parts of which are copied below) was merely a lampoon of the quintessentially moronic bubba caricature that anti-hunters love to hate, written by an anti-hunter to fuel the fire of anti-hunters everywhere.

<O:p</O:p
"At this point the 600 yard range was read and brock kept saying don't shoot, calm down your shaking way to bad to hit anything. Well I pulled the trigger to only hear the snap of the firing pin. Good thing cuz I flinched so bad I would have missed him by several yards lol. I quickly chambered a round and jerked the trigger again. The bullet went miles over his back. Brock was upset and said you got to calm down your breathing isn't even normal and you can't talk right. Well I jacked another round and wedged the gun in a crevice to act as a vice. Good thing cuz the crosshairs weren't moving even when I flinched and jerked the trigger again. That round dead centered his neck and send him peeling off the cows. After that I shot 9 more times at the bull at ranges I had very good drop charts for. Every time I flinched and slapped the trigger due to bull fever. I have never been such a nervous wreck. At one point I also barely missed sending a round over the hill as I was repositioning the gun for another shot because my trigger finger was even shaking so bad. Well we waited the wounded bull out for two hours and then proceeded in to find out what happened. Brock was sure he knew where the bull was last seen so I followed him ignoring what I thought was a good spot to look at. Bobcatbess thought other wise. He stopped, pulled out his binos, looked up the ridge and said there he is and he's running over the ridge. He was only 40 yards away. well I ran up the ridge to get a look and could hear him running up the other side. Bessy was right behind me. I took the first shot offhand at 250 yards and missed. I quickly found a good rest and waited for him to turn broad side and put one dead center of the guts. The bullet ripped into on side and left a fist sized hole on the other side and liquified lungs gut and everything else. He turned up the hill and offered a quarters shot so I broke down his rear running gear. 30 seconds later he was dead. Coolest thing about it is that my awesome spotter slamdunk watched the whole thing in the spotting scope as bobcatbess, the man himself, was watching over my shoulder. Utfireman was there helping every inch of the way and Brock was doing his best not to cuss me the entire time I struggled with bull fever. This was the most awesome hunt I've ever been on period. The entire time we all thought we had a solid 380 to 390 bull. Noone ever saw busted tines and regardless I woulda shot that thing opening day. That dude looked like a pig and was moving out. I had no choice, I had to shoot. The excitement was too much and I came to experience just that. Bull fever. I've never experienced that and hope that one day again before I die I can find myself missing another animal 10 times all at very easy range for my ability." – stinkystomper

And so…

<O:p</O:pStinkystomper,

<O:p</O:pYour actions and attitude are an embarrassment to all hunters that work hard to ensure that hunting is protected for many future generations.

<O:p</O:pThe fact that you “hope to one day again before you die find yourself missing another animal 10 times at very easy ranges for your ability”, should speak volumes about why you should not be allowed to point a rifle at ANY animal.

<O:p</O:pAt best, the easy range for your ability appears to be well inside of 50 yards. You DID have a choice, you DID NOT have to shoot. It was, in fact, NOT a job well done.

<O:p</O:pYour so-called “trophy” is a fraud. Nothing more. Instead of reveling in your so-called success, you should be ashamed of yourself. You ought to beg for forgiveness from a community that, in its heart-of-hearts, knows what you did was selfish, unethical and inherently wrong.

<O:p</O:pAllen

I'm once again reminded as to why I no longer duck in there from time to time.

GlennGTR
09-22-2009, 10:12 PM
I dont know that I would say that 90% of the reason I hunt is to feed my family. I could work overtime to make more money to feed my family or cut more coupons out of the paper to make my grocery budget go further. I could raise one or two heads of beef or raise chickens. Dont get me wrong I love my venison and elk. I just know there are easier ways to put food on the table. A large part of it is the meat but not ninty percent. If it were I would shoot the first legal buck I saw every year and the season would be over in a matter of hours not days or weeks. Whats the joy in a couple of hours of deer hunting? I wont pass up a trophy animal but thats not my goal either. I like my bucks to be a little matured and have some meat on their bones. I also like to some times hunt one particular deer that I may have seen out scouting. I know I have hunted one particular buck for the past three years but never crossed paths with him during the season. I end up taking a lesser deer but never a spike or forked horn even though spikes are legal. For me its a combination of tradition, being out there engaged in the act of hunting, practicing my woodcraft and tracking skills, learning the country,being self reliant,feeling more of a part of the environment vs an observer of it, and of course all those wonderful game recepies you can enjoy throughout the rest of the year. Hunting is more a way of life for me than a single act.

elmbow
09-22-2009, 10:32 PM
I dont know that I would say that 90% of the reason I hunt is to feed my family. I could work overtime to make more money to feed my family or cut more coupons out of the paper to make my grocery budget go further. I could raise one or two heads of beef or raise chickens. Dont get me wrong I love my venison and elk. I just know there are easier ways to put food on the table. A large part of it is the meat but not ninty percent. If it were I would shoot the first legal buck I saw every year and the season would be over in a matter of hours not days or weeks. Whats the joy in a couple of hours of deer hunting? I wont pass up a trophy animal but thats not my goal either. I like my bucks to be a little matured and have some meat on their bones. I also like to some times hunt one particular deer that I may have seen out scouting. I know I have hunted one particular buck for the past three years but never crossed paths with him during the season. I end up taking a lesser deer but never a spike or forked horn even though spikes are legal. For me its a combination of tradition, being out there engaged in the act of hunting, practicing my woodcraft and tracking skills, learning the country,being self reliant,feeling more of a part of the environment vs an observer of it, and of course all those wonderful game recepies you can enjoy throughout the rest of the year. Hunting is more a way of life for me than a single act.

Excellent post Glenn, straight from the heart, which is where true hunting motivation comes from, and I admit, I spoke in too broad strokes when I blanketed everything good about hunting into that 90% feeding the family statement. Hunting is too complicated to fit such a narrow paradigm. In the end, each of us will account for what was in our hearts when we loosed the arrow, blithely bought our $.99/dozen eggs, or chowed down our 24 oz. prime rib dinner.

Tony1911
09-23-2009, 03:15 AM
Some folks consider this hunting. It sounds more like shooting to me.

I most strongly object to this statement. "Shooting" implies hitting your target. What we have here is a case of ballistic masturbation.

Montanapete1
09-23-2009, 10:08 AM
Tony1911,


Good call!

Otoejet
09-23-2009, 10:59 AM
Tony1911 has coined a new phrase which will forever live in the hunting and shooting dictionary.

Ballistic Masturbation- v. to repeatedly pull the trigger with no intent or ability to hit a target, whether standing or moving or near or far. Usually carried out by dim-witted, lazy, and sloveny people who pose as hunters. Also see truck hunter and road hunter.

Kmassaro
09-23-2009, 11:00 AM
What bothers me most about this is that this alleged hunter appears proud of this. I'd be embarrassed as hell to shoot that poorly.

The Vigilante
09-23-2009, 11:03 AM
wtf, i hate hunters who do this ****!

evanhill
09-23-2009, 11:11 AM
before Allen's thread was removed, the consensus over there seemed to be

"everybody gets buck/bull fever, this kind of thing happens all the time, at least he didn't make up some story about only shooting once"

This is the section I find most offensive:


I quickly found a good rest and waited for him to turn broad side and put one dead center of the guts. The bullet ripped into on side and left a fist sized hole on the other side and liquified lungs gut and everything else. He turned up the hill and offered a quarters shot so I broke down his rear running gear.

You have a broadside shot, and your choice is dead center of the guts? Besides not being a good kill shot, isn't that supposed to be incredibly painful?

David in OR
09-23-2009, 11:24 AM
"I took the first shot offhand at 250 yards and missed."

No kidding?

*Then* he takes a "good rest" and proceeds to gutshoot the animal. Hard to read.

Kmassaro
09-23-2009, 11:26 AM
"The purpose of shooting is hitting." Jeff Cooper (RIP)

Pointshoot
09-23-2009, 03:26 PM
I was searching some YouTube videos yesterday and somehow came across a number of links with terrible 'hunter' behavior (theyre not true hunters in my book). - - - I was in the process of recounting some of these scenes here, but thought better of it since the antis are undoubtedly eager to jump on anything that would support their views.

But needless to say - - - a true hunter should be entirely proficient in the use of his rifle, bow, handgun, muzzleloader, etc at the ranges at which he chooses to try to kill a game animal. A shot, and maybe a quick follow-up shot should do the job. A true hunter respects the game animal - - - his doesn't go about 'yuck, yucking' like some fool while the animal is going through its death pangs. (And if he's of a mind, he might even say a little 'thank you' to the animal for giving up its life and helping to feed the hunter & his family - a ritual performed by many hunting societies for eons.)

Slob hunter behavior makes my blood boil !

Smokepole
09-23-2009, 10:19 PM
Dang elmbow, you beat me to it, I liked Ol' Glenn's post too. Don't get me wrong, I love bringing home the meat, but as the man said, there's much easier (and cheaper) ways to procure meat.

And bushcraft, I see why they deleted your posts, I can't really blame 'em--you used words like "caricature" and I'm pretty sure they didn't know what you were talking about.

Vernon
09-24-2009, 07:05 AM
I can't say anything that hasn't already been said but feel compelled to reiterate that what this person did is neither hunting, shooting, ethical or even outdoorsmanly (okay, I made that word up). Glenn's post is excellent and I too would see myself as 50% meat hunter and 50% nature hunter. I'm not sure that I ever lost a deer unless it was many, many years ago and I haven't had to hit one with more than one projectile in more years than I can recall. I'm not bragging but stating how we should be hunting and how I suspect many here hunt. I will pass on a shot more times than not if I even consider it chancy rather than wound an animal. Earlier this week I passed a shot on a deer in our early muzzleloader season because I felt it a low percentage shot. Nothing wrong with that and there will be more deer.

While we may have our disagreements I see the majority of posters here as ethical hunters, fishers and outdoorsmen (and women) who value the wilderness and the experiences that it provides and would do their utmost to preserve that for future generations. Thank you to everyone here for that and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

M Paulsen
09-24-2009, 07:44 AM
Well, it is good to hear what you all have to say about this. Some days I don't even want anyone to know I am a hunter. Like yesterday, when I was in a store that sells firearms as well as general outdoor gear, and heard the boys at the gun counter talking about "trash bucks." Dang. These guys seemed like nice enough guys but seemed to have picked up the lingo of the American sport hunter as seen on teevee.

It is good that you all are willing to stand up and be counted. Bushcraft, I admire you for posting on the Monstermuley site. I thought of doing that but decided it would do nothing more than generate a flame fest. Didn't even think that they would censor the forum like that. I think we need to follow your example and call them like we see them publicly.

Otoejet
09-24-2009, 08:01 AM
This whole thread reminds me of my miss last year. I've replayed the situation in my head literally hundreds of times since then. I was prone, good rest, and missed twice, before I even settled myself back down I snapped two more shots out of frustration. The buck walked away, I'm sure laughing at me. I collected myself and about an hour later I harvested a very nice buck, much, much smaller-but very good eating. That was a one shot-one kill scenario because I got back to me senses and took care of business.

Sometimes buck fever happens, and when it does you've gotta take a step back, draw a few breaths and remember fundamentals. This year I have a doe tag for the same area and even though it's a rifle tag, I'm taking my bow to make myself take a better shot the first time. The best part of this story is the big fella I missed is still cruising the same land, and will be spreading those genes for at least one more season. I learned my lesson. Hell, we all miss and many of us will hit, but not right where we want it. But the great hunters can run that follow up shot true to the mark and finish the deal. I learned more from that miss than any harvest I've had.

CCH
09-24-2009, 08:41 AM
Buck fever is one thing and as Otoejet says you need to step back and calm yourself. Buck fever or not, shooting at 600 yards is already looking for trouble for most hunters. For one who admits that he can't even hold the gun still or get a round chambered, it's just plain wrong. I'm betting he isn't one of the guys that practices at those sort of ranges in the first place. I didn't read a thing about doping the wind or adjusting his scope, both of which I'd imagine would be pretty critical at that range. How much do you guess to hold over at 600 yards, particularly when the crosshairs are jumping around?

I am SURE that if someone posted something like that on this site, they would be so thoroughly castigated that they'd never show their moniker again.

This type of thing is how I switched almost entirely to archery hunting some years ago -- not that there aren't a lot of slob archery hunters, there certainly are. I spent my first few years of big game hunting in Wisconsin. Watching groups of drunken hunters take 150 to 200 yard shots using shot gun slugs with bead sights sort of soured me on gun hunting. I am not exaggerating. That was exactly the scenario. A kid (older than me at the time, but probably 18 or so) that we hunted with because his family owned the land we hunted on, decided to shoot off his left shoulder with his shotgun and blew the jaw off of a doe. VERY thankfully we eventually recovered it, but flinging lead indiscriminately and irresponsibly left me very cold towards gun hunting. I spent a few years mostly archery hunting in Colorado without success but with lots of fun. When I moved back to Illinois, I ran into more of the same. I was invited to hunt a farm in Northwest Illinois, the home of some incredible bucks. I was on a stand and heard a bunch of shots from where one of the three guys hunting was. I then heard a couple from where my host was sitting. As best I can tell from the description, three bucks were hit and none recovered (I tried my best but they went so far they ended up on land we couldn't get on to.) My host didn't understand why I quit hunting that day (in my mind we had our limit) and didn't hunt again.

Jim N
09-24-2009, 09:33 AM
Hunt for a reasonable number of years and you will come on wounded animals left to die by jerks and / or incompetents. I have used two tags myself putting down wounded animals. For every animal recovered I believe many, many more are simply coyote bait. I am convinced the biggest threat to hunting lies not within nut-case groups like PETA, but slobs within our own community who's screw you attitude turns sour the attitude of non-hunters who would normally support competent and ethical sportsmen.

Vernon
09-24-2009, 09:52 AM
CCH,

Your post reminds me of my experience two years ago hunting on my grandparents old farm. I would combine setting against trees in promising places for some time mixed with some still hunting. Sometime in the mid-afternoon I heard shots start from the property down the road. This is land that is not lived on and the hunters come in from other areas only for the first few days of gun deer season and make a big todo of it. They are not looked upon fondly. Anywho, I heard what sounded to be large caliber shots in fairly rapid procession from a single gun - probably a pump or some kind of semi-automatic. I started counting and except for brief interruptions (probably to reload) I counted somewhere around 30 shots. Now, whether or not they were shooting at a deer or just shooting it was disturbing to say the least and ruined a relatively tranquil setting. These guys epitomize the guy in the OP.

snakey2
09-24-2009, 09:52 AM
I have spoken to people who have shot a long way and then not even gone and looked to see if they hit what they were shooting at. This whole thing is wrong and major kudos to Bushcraft for his thoughtful and polite post in response. I hunt for the joy of hunting. If I have a good hunt (one where I did it right and enjoyed myself) great, if I get some meat even better, if I get some meat and a trophy wow. This guy did it all wrong but sadly his "trophy" was not diminished in his eyes at all, on the contrary, it seemed that all of the BS made it better.

Scoutin' Wyo
09-24-2009, 10:35 AM
Buck fever is one thing and as Otoejet says you need to step back and calm yourself. Buck fever or not, shooting at 600 yards is already looking for trouble for most hunters. For one who admits that he can't even hold the gun still or get a round chambered, it's just plain wrong. I'm betting he isn't one of the guys that practices at those sort of ranges in the first place. I didn't read a thing about doping the wind or adjusting his scope, both of which I'd imagine would be pretty critical at that range. How much do you guess to hold over at 600 yards, particularly when the crosshairs are jumping around?


CCH,
Did you see the pictures of his high end toys? He didn't need to adjust the scope because I'm sure he was shooting a wind and gravity defeating Lupua super monster mag rifle. Might have even had one of the electronic scpoes that adjusts for you.

CCH
09-24-2009, 10:53 AM
I just read the copy but perhaps it was a laser beam unaffected by wind? That was about all I could take. Somehow can't find it with that link now unless it's one of the many that it takes you too. Bad stuff.

Didn't Pennsylvania ban .50 caliber for deer hunting because there was a trend a few years ago of using Barrett type rifles to shoot across canyons? The problem was finding the deer on the other side after shooting it.

By the way, due to time constraints I am now predominately a rifle hunter but that's in Colorado where I can get away from the crowd a bit.

Pointshoot
09-24-2009, 12:34 PM
Here's an example of some real hunters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&feature=related

Note the attitude and skill of the professional guide.

David in OR
09-24-2009, 12:56 PM
Quite a vid.

I don't even know how much I'd have to hold over at 600 yards because it would never occur to me to take that kind of shot. At 500 yards, it would be 45", and I wouldn't try that either. I know there are people who are fully capable of it, but I'm not one of them.

David in OR
09-24-2009, 01:00 PM
I spent my first few years of big game hunting in Wisconsin.

Whereabouts in WI? My GF is from the Green Bay area, and I used to flyfish the coulee country between Lacrosse and Madison. I spent four years as an "FIB." :)

Montanapete1
09-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Pointshoot,

Great video. That guide was a cool cat, under fire! I don't know about you but when a 1,500+ lbs.Brown Bear comes after you that is one guy I'd not mind having on my side!

KDOG
09-24-2009, 04:12 PM
Maybe I missed something in all the commenting, but was this a canned hunt? I see it described as a trophy hunt. I take it that this kind of "hunt" this guy did required no actual hunting skill? Would it be ok if I joined up there and called the guy a douchebag? I promise I won't tell anyone that I'm a member here. What a tard this guy is. Its amazing he's got a cute wife, she must be a little on the tarded side herself......nah better not go over there. Just get myself in trouble.....

elmbow
09-24-2009, 04:59 PM
Finally checked out the story on MM, son of a b**** did that in my back yard less than 90 miles from me pecking on this keyboard. What a waste of an amazing creature that deserved better. That's one non res tag that should have stayed home.

Pointshoot
09-24-2009, 06:08 PM
Pointshoot,

Great video. That guide was a cool cat, under fire! I don't know about you but when a 1,500+ lbs.Brown Bear comes after you that is one guy I'd not mind having on my side!

Montanapete - - I agree, some great pressence of mind & body under 'extreme pressure' to say the least.
I was especially impressed by his first reaction to shooting the Momma bear (who was only trying to protect her cub) - - -he really regretted being forced to do it. Now that man is a Hunter.

CCH
09-24-2009, 06:18 PM
We hunted near Lodi. I went to UW-Madison for school but by then I did most of my hunting in Colorado.

brian88
09-30-2009, 10:21 AM
loved the video ... but where in WI?

disillusionedpatriot
09-30-2009, 12:14 PM
That jack-azz is part of the reason why there are 'anti-hunters'.

Could be an anti posing as a hunter. Gray propaganda???

charles
10-01-2009, 12:36 AM
Anti hunters dont care if it takes 10 shots to kill an animal or 1. To them the pictures of dead animals on this site are the same as anything posted on the other site you guys are referencing. Most non hunters dont care either. A story on the internet isnt going to sway them one way or another. The only thing that story will do is divide hunters. In that light I think DP may have a point.

Smokepole
10-01-2009, 06:24 AM
I'd agree with you as far as the antis, but not on the non-hunters.

I know a lot of non-hunters and things like this, or, things hunters do in the opposite (to the good) direction do make an impression on them. And they're the majority of voters. A story on the internet may not make an impression, but when it gets picked up and repeated over and over by PETA or the HSUS, it does make an impression.

Antis will use emotional issues like this to sway non-hunters, no two ways about it. Things like the issue they used to get spring bear hunting banned in Colorado--the false premise that sows with cubs were being killed disproportionately in the spring.

M Paulsen
10-01-2009, 08:40 AM
I live in a place where hunting is considered normal, but still most people don't hunt. The non-hunters see stuff like this. They don't even have to go to the internet. They see "hunters" out on our public land doing things like this, see crippled animals on their property, hear the fusillades, hear all the hunters talking about trophy hunting, and so on. My wife is a good example. She doesn't hunt but is pro-hunting. When we are out during hunting season she often comments when we hear shooting. She knows well the old saying "one shot, meat, 2 shots maybe meat, 3 shots no meat" let alone "10 shots, what the hell?"

Hunting has always been plagued by slobs, but it seems worse now than it has ever been...seems like behavior like this is becoming the norm. I still can't quite believe that someone would proudly post a story like this on the internet, and then everyone congratulates the guy. Any criticism is promptly censored. I'm not that old, but when I was growing up and learning to hunt, things like this rarely happened, and never on purpose. When they did happen, people were ashamed. Long shots had to be explained and generally were not something to be proud of. When I was a kid, I KNEW I never wanted to be that kind of hunter. Nowdays it seems like bad behavior is the norm and doesn't matter as long as you get your trophy.

I can't help but post another excerpt from another thread on the MonsterMuleys site. This is the same guy talking about his bull, which apparently would have been a better trophy if some tines were not broken:

"weve talked to a few people who did apparently see the bull unbusted. one guy shot at him over 20 times opening morning n apparently the g2, g3 and xtra g2 were all as good or better than the other g2 and g3. were hoping to possibly locate some trail cam pics."

He must feel good about being able to bag that bull with only 12 shots. I wonder how many people heard all the shooting and commotion on opening day.

snakey2
10-01-2009, 09:32 AM
The sad thing is, the people who do this aren't ashamed. Only the ones who never would are bothered.

charles
10-01-2009, 11:04 AM
There are no more unethical hunters than there ever were you just hear about it more because of modern technology and the fact that in the past there werent as many anti hunters to spread the foolishness. Most game animals were almost wiped out in the past from overhunting, poaching, and what most would today consider unethical hunting practices. People romanticize the past too much. Man as a whole is more sporting in the way we hunt now than ever before. I am not going to defend guys acting like fools in the woods but some of you sound worse than peta. A deer is no different than a cow or any other animal I eat. I bow my head before every meal no matter if it is an animal I killed or a burger from McDonalds. A deer deserves no more or less respect than any other animal.

snakey2
10-01-2009, 01:46 PM
I would kill any animal as humanely as possible. I wouldn't put a cow at 600 yds and shoot at it 10 times in the "hope" of killing it any more than I would an elk or deer. The difference between ourselves and peta is that we do kill animals and that carries a responsibility to do it properly and we criticize ourselves when that responsibility isn't met with diligence and humility. No one should brag about a job poorly done no matter what the outcome is.

moho
10-01-2009, 07:02 PM
Sooo….. While channel surfing I just happened on an "Outdoor Channel" show in which a camo clad a___ole in a jeep shoots a "trophy" buck from the jeep and gushes praise all over himself. This is now TV "adventure".

If hunting disappears in the US, scenes and mentalities like that will be a large contribution to the reason why. I am so p___ed I can hardly talk, let alone type……..

Smokepole
10-01-2009, 07:52 PM
..... but some of you sound worse than peta.

How so? Who sounds worse than PETA?

M Paulsen
10-01-2009, 07:58 PM
How so? Who sounds worse than PETA?

I was wondering the same thing myself...which post is worse than PETA?

brian88
10-04-2009, 12:52 PM
every hunter i think has the responsibility to hunt respectfully. it's always a few bad eggs that ruin it for everyone