View Full Version : BERETTA-Magazine Ban
I just read an article in GUNS Magazine Sept. 2004 issue, page 18-19 and thought the article was important enough to bring it to your attention. "It mentioned sand doesn't do any small arms any good", and the "Berettas have been extremely popular among the Israelis, the world's acknowledged master of desert warfare, for decades." "Arab forces have used Beretta pistols with no complaints in the same sandy environment, as well as The Republic of South Africa in the Kalahari." "Why would the Berettas of American armed forces suddenly seize up in the sand? The reason seems to be after-market magazines purchased by our government on bid. During our first run in the desert, if I did not clean the magazines at least twice a day , guaranteed failure to feed. Rare to get off more than two shots without a feeding issue." "There are reports of 9mm NATO ball ammunition providing ineffectual against enemy fighters at close quarters. Nine millimeter FMJ ammo has been known to be an impotent manstopper since WW1 and nothing has changed." It gets worst: "all you'll be able to send to your GI overseas will be ten-shot "Clinton magazines," "Since the Crime Bill became law in 1994, newly-manufactured full-cap magazines can be sold only to police and military. And, cops and soldiers need written permission on Government letterhead from a supervisor to purchase them. When 9mm GI ball may need several hits to put down just one enemy combatant, a 15- instead of 10- round magazine can be the difference between life and death. We also see proof the ill-conceived Crime Law did nothing to reduce violent crime in it's decade of uselessness, has gone beyond hampering lawfully-armed citizens. It now reduces the ability of our courageous young military men and women to defend themselves while fighting overseas for this great nation. Could any logical and honest person need more proof that it's time for the "magazine ban" to sunset?". We all know criminals don't care about the law. They say our military is fighting a "War On Fredom" for our country and other countries, yet our soldiers don't even have the freedom to buy a magazine that could save their life,and each others life, nor will they have the freedom to buy a new factory high-capacity magazine to defend their homes and thier families when they return after they have proudly served our great country. This should be front page news on every newspaper, and headlines on every television station, every day until they have what the need, THEY DESERVE THE BEST, even if we have to start a collection ourselves until they have what they need, they should be supplied with New Factory 20 Round Beretta Magazines or up-graded to .40 S&W it might only require a drop in barrel, the 92 and 96 look like they use the same frame and slide. THEY DESERVE THE BEST AND THEY SHOULD GET IT. I also read in Roadmasters Magazine May 2004: "Such anti-gun activists like Senators Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein and Charles Schumer don't care what the Second Amendment to our Constitution means or actually says. They want your guns. They want your guns banned. All of them. The U.N. has many member countries that are extremely jealous of the USA, or they hate us. In many cases, it's both. Outside the U.N. building in New York is a statue of a handgun with it's barrel twisted like a pretzel. Inside is a giant decoration, like a mural, made up of broken or twisted rifles, shotguns and handguns." Very disturbing, but I do understand how other countries would be jealous of our Constitutional rights, but they should learn from them instead of hating them. And the Anti-Gun activist with thier Un-American thinking are too ignorant to relealize how special our Constitutional rights are, they are using the First admendment to try and destroy the Second admendment. In Shooting Times Sept. 2004 page 83 is an advertisment with "Senators Charles Schumer, Diane Feinstein, John Kerry and Ted Kennedy leaving the Senate chamber on March 2, 2004, giggling after casting a day-long series of anti-gun votes. Right before they posed for the camera. They voted to ban semiautomatic shotguns like your duck gun. And they voted to ban semi-auto rifles like the one you use for plinking. And they voted to ban deer hunting rifle ammo. And they voted to shut down gun shows. And they voted to blame the gun industry for the acts of criminals." But I was overwhelmed to read in Sept. 2004 Shooting Times page 12; "The Passing Of An American Icon President Ronald Wilson Reagan. A Strong Supporter Of Our Second Admendment Rights. In fact, President Regan was a strong and consistent supporter of the Second Amendment and the NRA. He was a longtime member, joining the NRA in December 1972 and upgrading to Life Member in August of 1979. He actively courted the NRA's endorsement in his Presidential campaigns and was the first Presidential candidate in history to receive that endorsement. He appeared on the cover of NRA magazines four times. In 1983 he was offered, and accepted, an NRA Honorary Life Membership, the highest honor bestowed by the NRA. President Reagan was also the owner of an AR-15 rifle, in full "preban" configuration. He was the first- and to date,the only--sitting President to speak at the NRA Annual Meetings, and his remarks clearly illustated his core support of the Second Admendment. President Reagan told the cheering crowd that "The NRA beleives America's laws were made to be obeyed and that our Constitutional liberties are just as important today as 200 years ago." GOD BLESS AMERICA GJZ
You rambled on a bit but the fact is you are right, the after market magazines that were issued were far below standards, the parkerization was far to thick and the follower was jacked up. Personally i would blame most of the problems on the parkerization. Of the after market mags i do nnot know of one person that could get of more than two rounds. I took all of my pre-bans with me but one function m9 does not change anything. In short we either gor screwed bo some congressman with stock in the company that got the contract or by gun control preventing competitiv markets in after market hi-cap mags.
MIG We're proud of you, but I would have never imagined you would have to pack your own, I wouldn't want an aftermarket magazine for a pea-shooter. We are told by our leaders this is the Greatest country in the World, Our Military Should Have The Best, No Comprimise, We spend billons around the world you should have what you need, not second best. Anti-Gun groups are protesting the extend and expand this Crime Bill without any knowledge how it affected our troops, not to mention the freedoms and traditions this country has always fought for. With an election coming up I felt it was important to post what I read, two rounds between jamming, unbeleivable. Hope you get what you need. SOON. Wish You The Best. GJZ
08-24-2004, 05:23 AM
I just happened to read the same article today and am a bit puzzled. I carry an M9 and haven't had any problems. I've got 9 magazines with me, a mix of Beretta and "after market" magazines and I've yet to have a failure to feed or properly function. Moreover we have five M9's in the company and when we ran the range for deployment we had no malfunctions due to machanical problems. The same holds true for the previous deployment to Afghanistan. I'm NOT an M9 fan, but I can't fault their reliablity based on my experieance.
I have long had a personal habit that none of my magazines that had problems left the range. If they stuck in the weapon or malfunctioned they were destroyed on the spot and I got a new one. Once I got in a position where I could make it policy in my units we did so.
08-28-2004, 07:58 PM
Could be the fault of troops unfamiliar with pistols not holding their arms tight enough for the slide to cycle properly.
Easy to blame the mags, can't publicly say some of the troops have weak wrists, or have no clue on how to shoot.
In the USAF, and in the USAFR, there's not a lot of firearms training. a few of us shoot IDPA, etc. for fun, some of us handgun hunt. Most Air Force shoot once a year, on an advanced video game (to save money).
I have ZERO time in the sandbox, so I'm just speculating. But there could be other causes than equipment failure.
Flamingo 7, David Walter,
The way I understood the article the problem wasn't at the range, but if the magizines were'nt cleaned twice a day in a sand/blowing environment the guns would fail to feed when needed, with the aftermaket magazines. Mig stated he did'nt know anyone who could get off more than two rounds without trouble. David I heard/read about people having trouble with semi-autos if they had a weak grip, but I have never had that problem with a Beretta myself. Flamingo 7, is it the Beretta your not a fan of, or is it the 9mm/caliber your not happy with? I'm not a big fan of the 9mm(caliber) myself, the 15 rd. mags. are a plus and the ammo is affordable, But I am a big fan of the Beretta, especially the .40 S&W. I used to prefer a revolver for reliablility until I had a brand NEW 629 3" S&W from the Performance Center break on the SECOND shot (the cylinder failed to rotate)and I despise the new key lock on the S&W's, won't buy another because of it, already lost the cheap key it came with. I would'nt hesitate to rely on my Beretta's (a 92FS & 96 both with the heavier Brigadier slide) I had them worked on by LTT, Langdon Tactical Technologys (custom trigger job, night sigts, etc.) and now I like them twice as much. Take care, I'll check back in a couple of weeks.
09-03-2004, 01:05 AM
The 92 and magazines have performed flawlessly since my arrival without any special effort at maintenence.
I like neither the 9mm or the Beretta. I'm an M1911A1 fan and don't think there is a better sidearm for what we are doing. That said, I have no problems cerrying the 92. Of all the things I worry about, hitting with the 92 and it's reliable operation don't even make the list.
Glad to hear your not having any trouble with your 92, could'nt image worrying about your sidearm when you would need it most, up close, in a building, an alley, or a cave. Maybe it's just a rumor about the aftermarket mags. and the Beretta because their are some many 1911 fans. My Beretta,s have performed flawlessly new out of the box, and after they were tuned up. Maybe Mig, or some others will respond back with some more info on their experiance. Not sure if your from the Ft.Dix area, or just stationed there., Best of luck to you, may you have a safe return. GJZ
The reliability of the 92 is not in question, it is the bad lot of magazines that marine units were issued immeadiately before deployment, i have used the 92 many times with other issue aftermarket magazines it was just a bad lot of after markets, flamingo and david the troops know well how to clean weapons and magazine and how to use them thank you very much.
You think they would have recalled the bad lot of magazines, no matter what, we just feel you should have the BEST equipment necessary. Hopefully starting tomorrow with the "sunset of the crime bill" (that doesn't solve the crime problem) hopefully you'll be able to get the 15 rd. mags. if you need them. Good Luck, and may you have a safe return. GJZ
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