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ibtrdia
07-02-2003, 11:47 AM
IMHO, what is missing from the Kifaru military pack line is an optional raincover to protect from rain & snow.

Patrick
07-03-2003, 06:20 AM
Ibtrdia--

We will have them soon.

ibtrdia
07-04-2003, 03:28 AM
]Patrick[

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my suggestion.

Roughly when will it be available and what is the price range like.

Thank you.

Guardsman
07-04-2003, 05:59 AM
Patrick

Agree with Ibtrdia, Hope it will be out soon

Guardsman

Patrick
07-04-2003, 06:58 AM
Gentlemen--

I'm going to be realistic and take into account our backlog of pack production. Therefor I estimate three months before we can actually build any raincovers. The price should be analogous to the hunting pack rain covers. And, would I be correct in assuming you'd like them to be in the same colors as the packs? When is your rainy season in Singapore?

ibtrdia
07-04-2003, 07:39 AM
]Patrick[

The monsoon season is usually somewhere in June & December.

It rains cats & dogs & everything gets wet here & it takes some time to dry because of the high humidity here.

Yes, the colour of the raincover should follow the pack & no big Kifaru logo stamp at the front.

Options for the customer like a reversible raincover, coyote brown/OD or just one colour.

Strag
07-04-2003, 09:46 AM
Some of the best items in a given kit often serve more than one purpose.

This rain cover, if properly designed, could also double as a water carrying bag (for filtering, washing, etc.), among other things. A few wrap-around webbing straps for strength, integrated as web handles, would do the job, and it should have webbing around the edge seam so that it could be "free standing" on the ground or hung from a tree.

There could be a patch of "hunter orange" pack cloth material on the inside of the cover so it could also serve as a signal panel.

A drawstring closure system could allow it to work as a rope bag as well.

These are just a few suggestions. What else?

Thanks for reading. Kifaru is the best stuff I've found yet.

Patrick
07-04-2003, 11:35 AM
Strag--

Your ideas are very worthy. Does the extra weight of handles and such concern you? Anybody else?

Sgathak
07-04-2003, 12:45 PM
The weight isnt a problem to me.

Id like to see a reversable cover.

If its not going to be multifunctional, most people could built their own with some fabric, 550, and a sewing machine... oh, and some willingness to try.

Strag
07-04-2003, 12:50 PM
Patrick, thanks very much for reading.

No, the extra weight doesn't bother me in this case. The handles would be akin to duffle bag handles (i.e. 2" wide webbing), which would be sewn onto and wrap completely around the cover to prevent them from ripping out when subjected to excessive weight. The handles themselves would just be extensions of the wrap-around webbing to make "loops."

The extra weight shouldn't be more than what several rows of PALS webbing weigh, and my Scout pack is covered with those. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Below are two links that should help to illustrate. A combination of these two products, with Kifaru design and ruggedness, could lead to a great raincover/carrying bag (and also a rope bag, signaling panel, et cetera, if practical).

Duffel Bag with Handles (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000& productId=189&parent_category_rn=4501703)
Water Carrying Bag (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=226&prrfnbr=13743)

Adam Stevens
07-05-2003, 12:38 AM
Hi Patrick,I make a duffle bag/rain cover for my packs,I've one on order right now, once I get it done I'll take some some photos and e-mail them to Mel.
Yours Adam
Smamit (http://www.smamit.co.il) smamit@smamit.co.il

ibtrdia
07-05-2003, 01:45 AM
I agree with Strag about the raincover doubling up as a water carrier

Adam, why don't you show your raincover/water carrier design on your website.

Patrick
07-05-2003, 07:11 AM
Gentlemen--

Super input, thank you all. We can surely make the cover also function as water/rope bag. Let's talk about the signal aspect, in connection with reversible. Am I hearing a request for one side orange and the other brown (or green); or am I hearing that request as reversible brown/green, with a smaller "panel" of int'l. orange on one of the sides? And bear in mind, always, that this thing is getting heavier and heavier (tho that doesn't seem to matter to you young bulls!). But just remember that there is merit in compactness of stowing the cover in your pack...it is getting bulkier and bulkier.

Strag
07-05-2003, 07:53 AM
Patrick, good point about the increase in weight. I would say it's worth it only if this raincover actually replaces a few items normally carried in the pack (such as the water bag and the signal panel).

Hmmmmm.....I'm wondering how hard it would be to make the raincover reconfigurable to work as an additional outer pouch (similar to a Long Pocket or Claymore Pouch) when it's not being used as a raincover. That way it wouldn't have to be stored in the pack, AND it could hold additional gear. Maybe have it fold into itself like a burrito and close/attach with SR buckles, using a drawstring closure(?). It could attach/detach to/from the pack using the Dock & Lock system.

Guardsman
07-05-2003, 08:08 AM
Patrick

I agree with Stag

Rain cover with Reversible
1. OD and Distress Orange
2. Desert with Distress Yellow
3. OD with Desert

Emergency water Carrier
Fold away into a pouch(About the size of the strobelight pouch?)

Guardsman /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sgathak
07-05-2003, 10:25 PM
Im thinking OD to CB would be great.

PERSONALLY... Id like to see Temperate DPM with Desert DPM... but thats just me.

(No one would know where to get 1000d DPM would you?)

ROCK6
07-09-2003, 06:35 PM
Great idea here, especially for those who already carry a pack-cover AND a VS17 panel. I think a Kifaru-reversable cover/signal panel would still weigh less than the other two combined. An outside of olive or CB would work along with either an orange or pink reverse for emergency signaling...and if orange, could double for most hunting requirements.

I also think the emergency water carry (or rope carrier) along with the duffle handles has a lot of merit and utility potential; I keep remembering all my laundry I had to do in Egypt during an exercise, and carrying a bunch of wet clothes/BDUs from the wash-point back to the hootch to hang dry...that carrier would have really helped out /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif .

Hopefully my EMR/Scout combo makes it here at the end of the month /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif , but with it being CB, I'd definately get an OD/orange Multi-Purpose Rain Cover (MPRC) for the green/wet areas, and make my pack even more versatile.

ROCK6

ibtrdia
07-09-2003, 07:14 PM
]ROCK6[

Well, we have just found a new name/acronym for our raincover as you suggested, Multi-Purpose Rain Cover (MPRC). /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Adam Stevens
07-10-2003, 11:22 AM
Ibtrdia Hi,I've just send Photos to Mel of the rain cover,For tec reasons I can't post them on my web site,If you like I could send you by e-mail. yours Adam
web page (http://www.smamit.co.il)

Strag
07-11-2003, 12:28 PM
ROCK6, there you go. Buy the raincover in a color OTHER than what your pack's color is, and your pack has just become suitably base-camouflaged for another, different environment.

ibtrdia
07-11-2003, 07:29 PM
]Adam[

Great

Thanks.

Saxe Coburg
07-13-2003, 03:32 PM
Guys keep that weight down! Heck I'm the guy that even cuts PALs webbing off stuff in an effort to lose the weight! I have been using the raincover that is issued with the Greggory SPEAR pack. It is very lghtweight and is made in 3 color desert. IMHO, while I can see a lot of cool concepts coming out of this thread, I personaly would like to see a very basic cover that would be orange or pink on the flip side. Drawstring around the edge and maybe a good size patch of velcro on the back, remember your name, cat eyes, ID, etc, will be covered when the cover is in use. They should come in 2 colors, OD or CB. Just some thoughts...

ROCK6
07-13-2003, 05:53 PM
Strag, just thinking about the color differences...I'm currently stationed in GA, and CB does pretty good most of the time, and when it is downporing, OD is actally better since it fits in with the shadows of the overcast skies. But, I've also been to TX and SWA, both places can be dry, arid and not really require a rain cover, hence maximizing the CB-color qualities.

Not that Saxe is crying too much /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif , but he does have a valid point...things that weight too much get left behind. But, I already carry a rain cover AND a VS17 signal panel...wouldn't hurt to combine them into one. Besides, I still like the term Multi Purpose Rain Cover (MPRC) :p

ROCK6

Saxe Coburg
07-14-2003, 05:52 PM
It's cool Rock6. I myself have built alot of custom mil. related gear over the years and have often times been overdoing things. "Just a couple more buckles, some more of these bells and acouple more wistles". More and more of the gear we have seen in mil. circles have been short-term, raid type gear, get in, get out. Where as myself have lived out of backpacks for weeks on the trail. I want it to be bomb-proof, but at the same time it needs to be a no nonsense design. Simple is good.
/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Nimbo
07-16-2003, 10:41 AM
I think a simple reverseable OD Green/Coyote Brown rain cover would be great. Not only would it keep manufacuriting costs down, and would be real nice for putting on when you got OD and want brown or vise versa.

My main concern is to keep it quiet.

TheSimpleton
08-05-2003, 11:32 AM
Looking between the Hunter and military packs, I think a quiet cover might be the answer here, in brown/od. The inside can't be ALL bright or where it lifts over something you have a visual blaze.

For the multi-purpose guys, I retro'ed a Large Alice into a jacket for my Mountainsmith FrostfireII (that goes way back) This adds the needed exterior pockets but comes off in a jif, and is also the quiet OD instead of the synthetic green (no offense to the commerical market but I like my forest visually quiet) Stitching full waterproof on the backside protects the pack and for critical items you don't have to take off the cover in a deluge and dig through for that rainhat or spare bottle. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I haven't built the protective toppocket yet, but it would have to drape over a bit more.

Trouble is, any raincover doesn't protect soak-through from the frame side, esp. the front corners where you knock into wet brush for 6 hours even after it stops raining here in lush green NY.

It doesn't seem impossible to put a fleece-over-Para configuration to cover light and quiet. A single vertical zip or zelcro would allow pocket access.

Just some ideas to put out there. Question seems to come down to: should it be light or multi-purpose?

TS

PS, thanks Pat, you make the most sensible gear for real (not ziplock/suburb) use out there. I had a panic when you vanished before I could get a tent.

Patrick
08-05-2003, 12:16 PM
TheSimpleton (TS)--

If you have a FFll you possess one of the most classic (and sucessful) packs of it's decade (and yeah, that was a while ago). We built a jillion of those beauties. Mountainsmithies used to say "the sun never sets on the Frostfire Empire". They WERE damn good, ya know?

And yes, I did re-surface with Kifaru after Mountainsmith--very glad you found me old-timer. I'm having a ball again--fully engaged. Just goes to show there's more than one company in me, I guess.

The thing about rain covers we all maybe should think about at this point is this: if everything is wet, it's also pretty quiet. Ergo, do we really need a raincover, as such, that is fleece on one side? Oops! I just realized I'm responding here on the Military Board, not the Hunter Board (the hunting packs have fleece "panels" as y'all know). OK, then, what do the rest of you Military readers have to say about Simpleton's comment? Does a combo of raincover AND quietening cover resonate? I'm in the middle of developing a featherweight raincover now that is Parafabric brown on one side and Parafabric Int.'l Orange on the other (for signalling). It will also tote water. Is that the most desireable option? I suppose we could make two kinds of Military "covers". What think?

Sgathak
08-05-2003, 07:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Parafabric brown on one side and Parafabric Int.'l Orange on the other (for signalling). It will also tote water. Is that the most desireable option? I suppose we could make two kinds of Military "covers". What think? </div></div>I think two kinds would be needed.

C.B. and O.D. makes the most sense to me... Its what I would use personally.

C.B./O.D. and I.O. would also have a definate purpose, but, like was said it would cause a blaze every time the cover was lifted. Now, conversly... if your digging around in your ruck and the badguys are close enough to see a blaze... you either screwed up, or its hairy enough a little bit of orange isnt on your "top ten" list.

ROCK6
08-06-2003, 03:03 AM
Hey Patrick, I think you're right on track. You can definately count me in for one (will it be able to fit an EMR/Scout combo?).

As to the underside signal color...again, I'd go with hunter orange, making it more universal between military and hunting. You could also look at just making a strip, cross or small square on the reverse side to keep the "oops" factor small...personally I don't think it's that big of an issue. If the underside was bordered in a few inches with OD/CB, I think you'd be okay.

Oh, and I still like the water carrying capability...along with the Multi-Purpose Rain Cover (MPRC) /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

ROCK6

ibtrdia
08-06-2003, 07:46 AM
Personally for me, no worries about the noisy raincover as the rain will drown the noise anyway.

I guess that there should be a few option as different people have different requirements.

Patrick, is there a sneak peek of the raincover design/material, maybe you can show Eggroll as he is heading your way soon.

Thanks.

Patrick
08-06-2003, 09:55 AM
Ibtrdia--

I have the pattern and the materials, but haven't sewn one up yet. I certainly can show the fellows on Friday what I have. We are in the throes of Hunting Season Orders just now and I may not be able to get any machine time to sew it up by then.

TheSimpleton
08-06-2003, 10:42 AM
I hadn't thought of how quiet it is when wet (or raining and noisy anyway), I was thinking of using one side when wet and one when dry. I'd use the CB/OD only, but it makes sense to sew an orange panel into one side so it doesn't always show. That'll satisfy the hunters. Since I dry-bag it inside, I'd use it more for color than for wet.

I'm not in the military, but if someone brought a blaze that wasn't locked in a box, I'd burn it in the first 6 hours. With the amazing scopes, satillites, and civilian questionables, you can't always know when you're being spotted or who you're avoiding. --Just my take.

Bucket is nice but it'll be a little big--how about a hot tub? We could route a hose from the stove. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif If it's a bucket it could be a rope (etc) carrier too, as someone suggested. For some reason I'm thinking of those dorky pre-coiled tents. It could double on itself like that and come down to size, y?

I've beat the snot out of the FFII, and I have to say the weakness is the cloth back panel between the stays (flexes under some conditions) the flat cordura backpanel which is sweaty (unlike the chimney improvement) and the belt is full-sized and is stiff enough to get in the way. All improvements already made. And that it's too clean, if such a thing is possible. Always shoulder-deep in the bag looking for something bc no pockets. Must have the ultra-narrow though for the Shawanagunk talus. This model had commercial colors (also now fixed) and the thin (about 1/2 cordura) side material (surprisingly fine but not reassuring for collecting firewood). In 11 years I tore the corner where the lumbar meets the bottom, and one of the straps was sewn about 1/4 off, causing it to curl way out to the side after about 8 years use.

These are all improvements made so you guys can have some idea how long one can last and why the belts are small--especially on the military pack. You have to arm-wrestle the old belts down to wrap out-of the way.

TS

6446mick
08-06-2003, 12:55 PM
G'Day

I know that the origanal purpose of this raincover is for the pack, but as it has been mentioned using it as a personall cover with the cargo chair is a great capability.

However, I see another couple of features required. Fisrtly it has to be able to be taken off the pack, or from the pouch while the pack is still on. And it would need to be able to be done with only one hand. (other hand still on weapon). Also the orange day glow needs to be able to be covered. I know that this raises the questions of wieght, but there is no option other that "if it comes out by day it is camo", a motto to live by.

These are only concerns if the item is to have three uses:
pack cover
rope/water carrier, and
pers cover.

My suggestion for a design is not much different fom what you have already been discussing. Shock cord outer, handles for carrying, fits into a pouch. But I see that the pugh must attach to the top of the pack, and be able to zipped opened with the pack on. The cover has one end attched to the pouch so as to make a minny hootchie while still in your pack. I think an internal zipper youls be the best option as velcro may not have the strenght, and I am off the noise it makes for a device which you move when you are out in the weeds.

Well that is my 2 cents.

Mick

6446mick
08-06-2003, 01:00 PM
Just read my post.

Not all Aussies are unintelligent fools who are illiterate. Only those working at 0300.

Hope it has not detracted from the points.

Mick

ibtrdia
08-06-2003, 05:04 PM
]Patrick[

That will be great. I didn't know that August is the hunting season in the USA, must be a busy period for Kifaru. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Thanks.

Patrick
08-06-2003, 06:51 PM
---Ibtrdia: The season is underway in Alaska; most of the rest of our States begin in September. Yes, we are quite busy as hunters are gearing up.

---Mick-- I understand about 3:00 AM ; I might even understand most of the post, tho I'm not certain of that.

Nimbo
08-07-2003, 12:25 AM
Things that I am worried about getting wet are already in H2O proof bags. But being able to go from OD to CB is real nice ability.

If you could have OD/CB on one side Orange on the other it would be good, but if one could pay a little extra for OD one side, CB on the other I know I would buy one.

Quiet is definately a neccesity. Also would there be just one size cover, or a variety of sizes. Kind of hard to put that EMR sized cover on a scout.

RangerBobMedic
08-08-2003, 11:38 AM
I keep hearing "rope carrier" mentioned? What the heck for? Are you looking to carry rescue gear with you, and how much? (100-200-300 ft?)And if so then why not use a rope bag already in production by CMC Equip., Blackhawk, Eagle, ETC? /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif I know you are thinking of multi purpose, but realistically, only a few people will be carrying enough rope to need a "rope carrier" (Climbers excluded) Remember the KISS principle? /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif And to be durable and to protect the rope properly it would have to be made out of Courdura (too heavy &amp; bulky for its main purpose) FYI, having a medical background myself, I will sometimes carry a 100ft length of 8mm. and some descending equipment "just in case"; if I feel the area I am going into might require a rescue/stabilization that will be hazerdous enough that I will need to provide BLS care 40 feet down a cliff. But I see no need for a rope carrier when I can strap the rope to the outside of the pack where it can be easily and immediately accesed. For all other outdoor needs 550 cord should be very capable not to mention lightweight, after all that's why you all are wanting this from Kifaru anyway, right? /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif So to sum this up, I'm not trying to bust on anyones' ideas, just trying to give some insight into real world use. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

BTW I am using the large Woodland Camo cover by Camp Trails and it is a very well made peice of kit. Found it in Jansports catalog. That would be a very good peice of gear to start from. And on the color, I think two designs would be best, one for tactical use only in reversable O.D/C.B with a COVERED I.O. signal panel. And one lightweight O.D or C.B. with an exposed I.O. panel on the inside. One more idea, how about as an improvised stretcher with haul loops at the corners? MPRC rocks for a name! And a water carrier/emergency filter adds no weight either! Yes, and add the webbing too. The weight would be nominal for the function you would achieve without putting too many bells &amp; whistles on.

OK, thanks for listening and if I am missing a need someone has please inform me, I am always open to a better way to do something.

sovereign
08-18-2003, 03:31 PM
I am assuming this will include a hood to keep water from streaming down your back? What is the time frame for these to go into production? Just curious as I may have to pick another one up in the meantime. Thanks.

Sgathak
08-18-2003, 04:17 PM
Well, if your worried about water streaming down your back wouldnt you have either a rain jacket, or a poncho to keep *you* dry? Or are you talking about the section that is exposed between you and the back section of the ruck?

sovereign
08-18-2003, 08:41 PM
Yes, I am talking about an integral hood, similar to Dana Designs model, which keeps the pack from getting soaked. A hood on a jacket will let water in between your back and the pack.

Sgathak
08-18-2003, 09:23 PM
Seems like superfluous weight to me, one more thing to get caught up on something, and will reduce the pack covers ability to be tightly snugged around the pack.

If your worried about your back getting wet, wear a poncho.

Patrick
08-19-2003, 07:33 AM
Sovereign--

I don't expect to be able to produce any of these till next spring. In part because we're real busy with producing packs, and in part because we'll need to thoroughly test the prototypes. And you can add that all these ideas, some of them conflicting, are making this project a moving target. And that, dear friends, is an understatement! (Are we having fun yet?)

sovereign
08-19-2003, 12:32 PM
Since my Pointman has quick detach shoulder straps, how about covering the front of the pack down to the waist belt with two slots at the top to feed the shoulder straps through? This would keep the pack drier both on and off. I am not concerned about keeping my back dry- that is what a jacket is for. But it seems as though a pack cover should keep the pack as dry as possible, both front and back. Kifaru can take advantage of the quick detach shoulder straps and make a truly innovative cover for their packs, not just a military color scheme knock off of everyone else's design.

Patrick
08-20-2003, 05:30 PM
Sovereign--

Artful design thinking. Congrats. Now, how does it jibe with water/gear/rope carrying? Signalling? The things the other guys started out asking for.

sovereign
08-21-2003, 09:57 AM
Patrick,

I understand that you will be trying to make everyone happy with this design. My points are only suggestions for keeping the front of the pack from getting soaked; by way of an integrated hood which can be rolled out of the way if not needed or by extending the pack cover down the front of the pack. Since I can only speak for the Pointman it actually seems as though the second alternative might be best. Why? Because the Pointman does not have a traditional "hump" extending above the shoulder straps which most raincovers are able to cinch around. It just seems as though the Pointman's design will need at least a partial extension of the raincover down the front of the pack. My main concern regarding a rain cover is that it performs the main function of sealing the pack from the elements. As for a water carrier I use a MSR Dromedary, as it is bombproof and can be sealed when transporting water from the stream. Easy to filter from when back in camp and only weighs a few ounces. As for the rope bag idea, what does one do when it begins to pour and the rope is enclosed in the raincover? I suppose I am just looking for a custom made raincover that is designed around the Pointman- I am not concerned about multi function use regarding a raincover. My $.02...

TheSimpleton
08-25-2003, 05:31 AM
I know you guys are pickng on the rope bag idea, and with good reason, but I'm guessing the thinking on this (or my thinking anyway) was just to have "A bag", since adding this ability to a traditional slipcover is pretty easy.

I think he has a point here to that different size/shape packs may each need their own cover, which means you have to take this already unwieldy, Rube Goldberg rain thing and make not one but 3 designs of it. Thanks for developing this so I don't have to! It must take ages.

TS

Patrick
08-25-2003, 07:13 AM
Sovereign and Simplton--

There will indeed have to be sizes. And the low-profile-ness of the Pointman will indeed need to be adressed. Yep, hard stuff to figure out. Thanks.

ibtrdia
08-25-2003, 08:21 AM
]Patrick[

I do hope that this project will go through as majority of the civilian raincover out there are in black or some bright colour.

There should be a S, M &amp; L sizes to accommodate different sizes of the Kifaru packs.

Strag
09-14-2003, 01:48 PM
Okay, scratch everything I said earlier. I just hiked a section of the Appalachian Trail in southern PA (carrying my Pointman), and ANY extra weight is definitely a Bad Thing. I vote for a simple, lightweight, reversible raincover. One side could be OD, the other could be coyote brown, hunter orange, or white (anyone carrying their pack in the snow?). Whichever works for the majority and is easiest to produce.

ibtrdia
09-15-2003, 09:31 AM
]Strag[

That is why Kifaru has not yet mass produced the raincover.

It is still being RDT&amp;E(Research, Development, Test &amp; Evaluate) /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Strag
09-16-2003, 02:29 PM
On the AT, one thing happened that I did not foresee, but should have. I sweat like a bear, and in the course of doing 14-mile days in fairly hot/humid weather, I was usually drenched from head to foot. My Pointman ended up absorbing a lot of sweat from me. It also didn't help that I hiked through a steady downpour on the third afternoon (although the shower felt damn good).

Could a pack cover be designed that would protect from both the rain AND the user? In other words, would it be possible to incorporate a pack cover that not only kept the rain off, but also helped to keep sweat from soaking into the pack?

Patrick
09-16-2003, 04:25 PM
Hey Strag--

There are subtle, complex things concerning fit and comfort going on at the interface between your back and your Pointman. A "sweat barrier" that doesn't compromise all of that is a tall order. But I'll think about it. Meanwhile, douche your Pointman and keep on truckin'...you can't hurt the thing.

Strag
09-16-2003, 05:07 PM
Patrick,

Yeah, I didn't know how realistic such a pack cover might be, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there anyway. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

My Pointman may not smell new, but it still LOOKS new. It performed admirably on the AT, and I hope to have a few pictures of it in action soon to post here.

Footmobile
10-16-2003, 04:45 PM
As far as colors go, how 'bout an OD one side, snow white on the reverse for mountain ops. A tan one side and Coyote Brown on the reverse for Desert locals and maybye an OD/Coyote Brown for everything in between? I like Saxe's idea of keeping everything simple and to the point, and having a square of velcro on each side for attaching tapes, glint tape, etc..

MATCHGRADE
11-17-2003, 04:45 PM
Im glad to come to this post where every one has the same idea. I definately want a 2 sided raincover, but that is mostly to solve my dilema of wanting an emr in 2 different colors. However, with a dual sided pack/rain cover the pack could open like a bag to totally envelope the backpack.
Any one ever bivy in the rain/mud? No room for that pack in the bivy. Id like to waterproof mine and sling it in a tree. That paraglider/parahootch material I think would be the prime canidate. This could also be the water bearing bag.

MATCHGRADE
11-18-2003, 12:37 AM
Sorry, let me clarify, the bag hangs from the tree, not the bivy, although...I vote for OD and Coyote. Would it cover rifles in the auxiliry holster? or would it allow aux holsters to remain attached. Will there be od/cb gun covers?

cavsct19d
02-24-2004, 10:55 PM
I just ordered a EMR in OD and I picked up on this thread. I dont know about you guys but i have a square of the signaling panel sewn on the inside of my patrol caps. However i think it would be useful if the rain cover could possibly have attachment points for natural foilage for ruck caches or use the cover like a mini ghille suit, Every one is in agreence that it should be light and i am sure that it would be lighter than the signaling panel many of you carry. Just my two cents

ibtrdia
02-26-2004, 05:48 AM
Everyone here agrees about the reversible part of the raincover and it to be light. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Moloch38
02-26-2004, 07:18 AM
When god when is this baby coming to fruition???

DarkAngel
02-27-2004, 07:17 AM
{Ibtrdia}
Just sent u a PM. Thx.

sak45acp
02-27-2004, 04:45 PM
I'll put my two cents in here. Having an OD EMR, I would be happy to have a coyote raincover, with a heavy duty draw string around the edge, and on the inside a vs-17panel orange sheet of at least 18X12" that would center on the front of the pack. The coyote color would allow me to go from a "woodier," greener landscape in OD to a dryer, desert,etc. landscape in coyote. The heavy draw string (550 cord type) around the edge would allow fastening to the pack, and facilitate using the cover as a laundry, miscellaneous, water bag. If I need a signalling panel for whatever reason, I just need to flip the cover inside out. I can signal aircraft, or use it hunting when International orange is required. I would think this would not be too heavy, and is still multifunctional. Oh, and it should be waterproof of course! /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

thewolverine
02-28-2004, 06:58 AM
Just my 2 cents..like a lot of others..OD/CB would be my choice. I would definitely kep it LIGHT..(I have always thought that US soldiers tend to carry too much weight..in my personal experience)
... glint tape and some other things many times are sewn in cap..All good ideas..
for the cover i would keep it simple..
Patrick, I have a couple of vs17 panels if ya'll want some to fool around with..
can bring them in the next couple weeks when i drop off the small metal item..
one last question..will the cover fit my old mtnsmith that egg still has??

Patrick
02-28-2004, 08:01 AM
wolverine--

I've been wondering about that small metal item. Sure, bring the vs17 panel when you come. The cover(s) should fit the Mountainsmith gear, yes.

sons of liberty
03-02-2004, 12:04 PM
Pat- Just called Mel and lent my .02cents on this one. I think its a great concept and can't wait to see it. I loved my old desert dust cover and I abused the hell out of it. I belive if it was waterproof and had a signal panel sewn in it would be a life saver when your 3 days in the Delta T corridor on foot and all you want is a nice pair of dry socks, since it has been raining over 6" a night for 7 nights in the desert training area of wonderful 29 Palms Cali. (This is where I was for the past month)

Jan
03-02-2004, 01:04 PM
Patrick,
it would be wonderful if you could bring a raincover down to White Sands with you so the Bataan crew can maybe see the thing first hand. That would be awesome! Thanks,
Jan