View Full Version : Question for Mel, re correct employment of Wraptech w/out belt

05-26-2006, 12:54 PM
Hi Mel/Others,

When researching my purchase I read on the product description pages:
<ul> http://www.kifaru.net/MG_wraptech.htm http://www.kifaru.net/MGnaviga.htm[/list]
that Wraptech based packs could be used in a beltless "shoulder carry" mode if required, presumably so they can be employed with conventional webbing/belt kit, instead of a chest harness where appropriate.

However when I remove the belt from the pack, and re-fasten the beavertail/lumbar pad, it is possible for the frame staves to slip out of the side of the beavertail/lumbar pad assembly.

I inadvertantly discovered this as I picked up the pack using the beavertail/lumbar pad as a grip, prepartory to putting the pack on over webbing with the Wraptech belt removed.

It appears that between the lateral movement that the staves have in their sleeves and the lateral movement and "give"/flex of the beavertail/lumbar pad itself, there is enough "slack" for the frame staves to slip out around the edge beavertail and therefore potentially from their retaining sleeves.

So my questions are:
<ul> Are the Wraptech based packs intended to be used with frame staves in "should carry" mode or did I misunderstand the product descriptions? If the Wraptech based packs are intended to be able to be used no belt, staves in, am I missing something - obvious or subtle - in the correct means to employ the pack in "shoulder carry"/mode with frame staves?[/list]

There are some photos at the URL below that try and illustrate the issues described above and conclusions drawn from them: http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_no_belt_question/

The comments below describe what each of the photos is attemmpting to illustrate:

1_staves_in.jpg - With the frame staves moved in toward the vertical centreline as far as possible within their sleeves.

2_staves_out.jpg - With the frame staves moved out from to the vertical centreline as far as possible within their sleeves.

3_beaver_give.jpg - With the frame staves moved out from to the vertical centreline as far as possible within their sleeves, slightly different angle.

4_beaver_give.jpg - Beaver tail done up showing extent of stave protrusion.

5_beaver_lift.jpg - Lifting the beaver by tail to illustrate approximately what happend when the stave popped out.

More examples of stave protrustion past the side of the beaver tail. It's sort of hard to see because the back of the beavertail is narrower than the front, so you need to try and take the phot from behind it to really show it.

Any insight/suggestions etc would be greatly valued.


05-26-2006, 01:05 PM
given this picture from Military Morons:

05-26-2006, 02:14 PM
fireball - you're right - the navigator cannot be used without a waistbelt. the text on the kifaru website about the wraptech suspension should be changed to reflect this.
the pointman has a different waistbelt from the navigator (in the photo atrick-pay linked to), and allows it to be used without the waist belt.

05-26-2006, 06:36 PM
I just checked out the website, and sure enough, it says that the WrapTech suspension packs can be used without a waistbelt. That will get changed this coming week after the holiday weekend. The Pointman was designed to be able to take off the waistbelt and be used in a shoulder carry only mode. This was because the size of the Pointman was just short enough to be used above a buttpack or belt kit with pouches. But even the size of the Pointman was pushing it for effectively using it in that mode. The Navigator was deemed too long of a pack for this type of carry. The difference is actually on the back of the lumbar pads. The back of the Pointman lumbar pad has 2 Hypalon pockets to capture the bottom of the frame stays, just like on the back of the waistbelts for the Pointman and Navigator. If you take off the Pointman waistbelt, you can use the Hypalon pockets on the back of the lumbar pad to capture the stays. The Navigator does not have the Hypalon pockets on the back of it's lumbar pad, so the waistbelt must be used at all times. Why did we not put Hypalon pockets on the Navigator? We never figured anyone would ever want to use the Navigator without a waistbelt, because it is just too long to fit over the top of buttpacks or belt kits. It was a pretty good call, because in the almost 4 years that the Navigator has been available, there has not been a call for beltless use. We should have caught that error on the website about the WrapTech suspension (actually, I should have /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif ). I hope I didn't confuse anyone, and sorry for that mixup on the website.


05-26-2006, 07:57 PM
Well, that's sort of re-assuring.
I thought I must be missing something probably obvious.

Thanks for the explanation Mel.

For my particular anatomy, webbing configuration and wear style (worn low slung on hips, loop suspended pouches worn at the back) I can wear the Navigator over my webbing.

However I can see that if worn with a butt pack , it probably wouldn't fit so well.

Obviously given Mel's explanation this is not a mode of carry I will employ.

With regards the lack of questions on the issue, I reckon that might be partially influenced by the current "fashion" (practice would probably be a better word) where
conventional webbing is "out" and chest rigs are "in" phenomena we have seen over the past few years.

Which I think is a whole other interesting question.

Thanks for your help and coments guys.

PS Mel
If you like, I can review the accuracy if the entire site - just sned me a sample of each piece of gear and I will insepct them and check the descriptions for inconsitencies...

/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif <-- them are cheesy grins