PDA

View Full Version : Multicam Navigator, It's heeeere. With ( *even* more new improved ) pics.



fireballxl5
05-10-2006, 03:46 AM
Well, my slightly customised MultiCam Navigtor has arrived.

I'm quite stoked.

I am going hiking in about 36 hours, so I don't have time to do a decent photo session, but here are a few quick snaps to give people an idea of what these bad boys look like in MultCam.

When I get back I should have some pics of the gear in the field and I will also take some better comparitive/detailed pics.

Pleaes bear in mind this Navigator is not standard.

My Navigator has the following mods:
<ul> a small PALs array on the top a couple of extra PALs strips on the inside of the sides (not pictured)[/list]

First impression is that the size of the clean (without pockets) Navigator is about the same as an clean MMR.

As expected, based on the other Kif gear I have seen, it looks like it will be bomb proof and is very well made.

As shown the pack has an E&amp;E pack/poch on the back, and a hybrid long pocket on each side. The pack and pockets are properly not loaded as yet.
They have been stuffed with sleeping bags, clothes etc to bulk them up for the photos.

A 1 quart Austrlaian Army canteen (same as US 1 quart but dark green)and 1L/32oz Nalgene widemouth bottle are shown for scale.

There seem to be some issues with imperfection the images in some browsers. My apologies for this,I'm not sure where the imperfections are coming from, as they look fine in Photoshop.


Well here are the pics, click on the image for a larger version.

Happiness is a new Navigator.
/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_back_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_back.jpg)

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_back_threequarter_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_back_threequarter.jpg)

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_side_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_side.jpg)

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_top_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/navigator/nav_mc_top.jpg)

Gizzmo
05-10-2006, 04:06 AM
Nice setup ! I like the Multicam.

militarymoron
05-10-2006, 05:51 AM
nice! i'd like to see some pics of it in the outback.

devonh
05-10-2006, 11:29 AM
Oooo I like that... Do you have an MMR that you can set it next to, for comparison?

Try uploading the pictures to the interweb again and that may fix it. I have had the same problem once or twice, and that seems to do the trick.

fireballxl5
05-10-2006, 06:38 PM
I don't have an MMR,but the mate I am going away has one and a Marauder.

When I get back I'll try to do some comparitive shots against the MMR and some other packs.

I'll also do some internal detail pics, because when I was making the decision as to which pack to buy I found it very hard to make, since the sorts of details I wanted to see were not shown in pics and there seem to be very few Navigator users (and therefore pics) on the boards.

Merc82
05-17-2006, 07:25 PM
I'll be waiting anxiously for those pictures as I am debating on either a Navigator or a ZXR for hiking and military purposes.

fireballxl5
05-18-2006, 06:12 AM
Some comparative pics between a loaded Navigator and a loaded MMR.
Again click on the images for higher res versions.

In these two shots below, the Navigator is carrying in the region of 27kg (59lb) and the MMR around 30kg (66lb).

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_mmr/nav_mmr_3qtr_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_mmr/nav_mmr_3qtr.jpg)
http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_mmr/nav_mmr_back_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_mmr/nav_mmr_back.jpg)

In the shot below, both packs were carrying around 30kg, ie about 66 pounds.

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_mmr/nav_mmr_loaded_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_mmr/nav_mmr_loaded.jpg)


With regards the size comparision between the Navigator and the MMR, I'd still say they are pretty much the same size, with the exception that the MMR has a collar.

In addition the MMR sleeping bag compartment is probably 3" or so deeper, but I think the bottom of the pack to the top of both packs, excluding the MMR's collar is still about the same +/- 1-2".

Note that in the pics above the MMR has a long pocket on the bottom and a claymore pouch on top and in some shots a tent in stuff sac under the lid, which makes it look a fair bit taller.

My Navigator has a SORD Hostage Rescue Pouch affixed on top.
Note there is no PALs on the top of a standard Navigator. I had my PALs added as a custom add on. I believe this added considerable time ot the ship date, but I believe it was worth it.

With regards general capacity I'd say it is true you can't stuff a Navigator as much as an MMR, because the MMR has a bit of a collar, but whoever said you can't stuff a panel loader just wasn't trying.
/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

At some point over the next few days I'll try to take some more detailed pics of the Navigator in detail and some better comparitive pics against other packs.

Some quick comments with regards Wraptech suspension follow below.
I'll probably post amore in depth review/critique at a later date.
If Merc or any one else has any specific questions or specific photos they'd like real quick (eg for a purchaseing decision) please PM me and I'll do my best.

For the record I have a pretty screwed back, including a ruptured disc at L5/S1 which has undergone a discectomy.

Basically I should probably not hump a ruck and my last medical restriction said I should not lift more than 5kg (approx 12lb).

Despite this I had no noticable back problems (i.e. none over and above what I normally get day to day around home/thge office) whilst carrying the Navigator with that load.

Knees and thighs were not happy, but due to the aforesaid back thing I have not humped a seriously loaded pack since recruit training in early '89, so those muscles/joints are not in ruck humping trim, so that was to be expected.

When I say no noticable back problems, I really mean EXACTLY that. No extra anealgesics. No extra anti inflamatories. No sciatica. No dull, sharp or throbbing pain.
Nothing. Zip.
I woke up the next day with zero back pain.

I have had far worse back aggravation from carrying far lighter weights, shorter distances with other packs.

Wraptech suspension really works and works exceptionally well.

I say again.

Wraptech suspension really works and works exceptionally well.

This is a lot of words to say something works, but it is not at all often that something works as well as the Wraptech suspension has worked for me, and I consider myself to be very critical.

Given the above ramble I can't say I am lost for words, but I can say I am impressed very impressed with the comfort, ride carrying ability of the Wraptech suspension system.

fireballxl5
05-20-2006, 05:22 AM
Some size comparison photos with some Aust issue packs, as requested by a young digger on the boards.

The packs from left to right are:
<ul> Australian Army Field Pack Large (aka '67 pack) issued to regualr forces from Vietnam to about 1989/1990. Australian Army Issue Pack, nomenclecture unknown issue began circa 1998 Wilderness Equipment SAS MK VI this copy bought circa 1990. I believe these packs and large ALICE packs were the only packs allowed for SASR Cadre Course (Selection) around 1990, because you could not fit the required jerry can of water and other gear in the issue packs of the era. Kifaru Navigator (http://www.kifaru.net/MGnaviga.htm) Aged much repaired large Alice pack,with frame but no harness New Zealand Army pack, nomenclecture unknown circa 1994[/list]

White tape on the floor is folded to be 60" long.

The packs are lightly stuffed with sleeping bags and other junk to fill them out.
They are not stuffed tightly, so some of them are sagging a bit, eg the NZ army pack on the right.
Compresson straps are done up sufficiently to tension them ut nto tightly enough to compres the "loads".
Where possible external pockets have been removed. Non removable pockets have also been lightly stuffed.

And yes, we really did go bush for 3-5 days with those piddly little '67 packs and webbing.

At least I did during recruit training and IETs.

After that, like any self respecting geardo, I used my own personal Gucci gear, but a lot of tight ass, only there until their time was up, diggers used to live out of those '67 packs.
/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Again click on the image for higher res versions.

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_comparisons/pack_comparison_front_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_comparisons/pack_comparison_front.jpg)

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_comparisons/pack_comparison_side_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_comparisons/pack_comparison_side.jpg)

Hanzo
05-20-2006, 09:22 AM
Fireball,

Nice pics, I love seein' all that Cordura goodness.

I'm also really surprised at how well the MC blends withe the Eucalyptus (or however you spell it). Here in San Diego (southern California) our dominant tree species is the Eucalyptus so its interesting to note although most of the places I hang out in, there are no trees.

Gany
05-20-2006, 04:00 PM
Believe it or not my OC is still using the old '67 style pack, but it must be a later version thats in auscam canvas. Recently did a pack repair on the top adjusting straps but its otherwise still going strong.

The 'Raven' pack i believe it might be called (second from the left), the photo is deceptive. I daresay you could fit a lot more in the navigator and SAS pack than that issued junk. I'll try and get a comparison shot of that next to a zulu.

Thommo
05-20-2006, 10:12 PM
Gee just checked in for the first time in a few days and looks like we have a Ozzy Pack Forum. Cant wait to check out the MC Navigator in the flesh, will PM you. Your Oz pack collection brings back memories, some of them very painfull /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif .

Spent many years using the old Aust Pack (the small "jungle green" pack), did all my promotion courses etc at Pucka :rolleyes: and other suitably cold places trying to fit in warm weather gear in what was designed to be a tropical /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif use pack. I still have one of these animals in the bottom of the cupboard (any collectors out there?).

Cant remember when the "Aust Pack Large" (thats what we all referred to it as at the time) came on the scene, must have been late 80's or so, it was approx a couple inches bigger in most directions and used fastex clips instead of thread thru straps but basically the same design as the previous smaller pack. It was in Auscam and still used by a few of the old salts who recon its a good size (you cant overload it easily). Recon that would be the pack that Gany's OC is using? I also know a few diggers who still use it.

The "Raven Pack" was another design similar to the next issue "Field Pack Large" however it had zipper side access and long slot pouch on the side. I think I was one of the first to use this pack in its designed role (RASIGS) but it was part of the CES for various radio configurations/issues and not for personal use.

The pack replacing the Aust Pack Large was the larger version you have displayed and is the "Field Pack Large 1994" (I have in front of me the original fitting instructios and user booklet), but like many I just also refered to it as a Aust Pack Large or "Larger" /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif . This is the pack which I am currently using and with numerous modifications I have made into a somewhat comfortable pack albeit very heavy due to canvas and heavy webbing. Empty weight with a few Auscam Canvas pockets is about 6.5 kgs (is that 12 - 13 lbs?) Intend on replacing with a ZXR /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif for just that reason, about the same size and 1/2 the weight.

Excellent post, must get my act together and learn how to post pics and tell a few "pack tales" /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif .

fireballxl5
05-22-2006, 02:20 PM
Some MultiCam in the bush, for MM (and anyone else who wants to take a peek).

<ul> wout - denotes the pack is not in the pick (i.e before) with denotes pack is in the pic (i.e after)[/list]

Shots were taken no more than approx 10m from site.

Each set was taken more or less in the same spot.
In some cases, within a set, I've moved the pack from side to side, from the perspective of the camera.
In most cases I have not cammed the pack, rather I've simply placed it down, perhaps behind some grass, below a bush, as I would for an extremely hasty cache.
The problem is, if you add garnish, even a handful of grass or two, thrown over the top, the bugger dissapears.

The exception is the last set where I did garnish the pack, because the hardware was fairly shiny.
Actually the whole pack is fairly shiny to the eye, but that does nto show in the pics.

I imagine a bit of use will fix that nicely.

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/nav_cam/

AbnMedOps
05-22-2006, 06:36 PM
Great pictures, FireballXL5 ! I had never seen those Australian packs before. Interesting that the US "Field Pack, Large" seems to bear a little resemblance to the Aus Field Pack Large. Maybe US Army Natick Labs copied BOTH Lowe Alpine and the Diggers!

The Multi-Cam shots were great. I think I'm going to have to talk myself into buying some of that stuff. It really looks effective. I can't picture ACU doing so well in that bush environment.

I like that wide open, bush countryside - very reminscent of the Texas Hill Country, or parts of Colorado (Ft. Carson).

militarymoron
05-22-2006, 08:33 PM
fireball, thanks for posting the field pics. i had a difficult time finding the pack with some of the 'with' pics. from a distance, even against a green background, it could be mistaken for a boulder or rocks.

fireballxl5
05-23-2006, 06:44 PM
AbnMedOps:

I'm sure talking yourself into buying some MC will be a real chore, and I'm positive you are dreading it.
/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

With regards ACU I've been talking about it with Gronk and I'd love to see some in our local condiditons or smiliar.

My first thought was "No way! That'd suck".

But thinking about it more, a lot of our green vegetation is a very grey tinged green and the bark is often as not grey or greyish/brown, so ACU might do better than I first thought.

At a distance a lot of our vegetation looks grey, sometimes almost blue as much as green.

In the old days, before Auscam issue gear our gear was generally made of a light green canvas, which usually turned fairly dark with use. I guess sage green would be a fairly close approximation.
The most effective colours I found for camming that gear up with spray paint were greys (light-medium) and occaisonmal yellow high lights.

So I think we might be surprised as to how well ACU would work here, though I still don't think it would do as well as MC "out of the box".

I have no doubt ACU would be very effective at night in nearly all terrain.

In any case the best cam for the Aussie bush is often to roll in the dust or do contact drills and section attacks for a minute or two, and you'll blend right in. That made even the dark "Jungle Green" greens (fatigues) blend in.


MM:

Yeah I reckon the MC works well here - and pretty much everywhere else I've seen photos of it.
I'm a definate fan.

The colours MC uses are those that predominate in a lot of Aus terrain.
Browns, tans, straw type yellows, greys and light grey tinged green. What surpises me is how well it seems to work in more temperate climates with darker vegetation.

The terrain in the photos is probably a bit non typical in that it is greener than average as it is winter and because there were fairly signiifcant rains in the weeks preceeeding and the area we stayed in was a creek valley/gorge - though the creek was dry.

I'm very confident that if you took the most minor effort, say 20-30 secs, you could render that gear totally invisible at very close ranges, in prety much all the Aust terrain that I have experienced, even in our arid, scraggly vegetated local terrain.

As you will gather I'm very happy with the pack and the MC pattern. I did not expect to be dissapointed with either and I'm not.

fireballxl5
05-25-2006, 11:29 PM
Ok, more gear pr0n.

Comparison shots between MMR, Navigator and Marauder,

Conditions the same as before.
I.e. packs stuffed with sleeping bags and other soft stuff to bulk them out.
Compression straps fastened by not compressed.
Click on the image for a higehr res version.

Thanks to Gronk for supplying the MMR and Maruauder models.

They are nearly as ***y as tthat Navigator o' mine.

/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

MMR, Navigator, Marauder, E&amp;E, Long Pocket (hybrid Top Zip), Claymore (Malice).
http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/sides_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/sides.jpg)

Claymore (Malice), Long Pocket (Hybrid, Top Zip), E&amp;E, Marauder, Navigator, MMR
http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/fronts_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/fronts.jpg)

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/three_quart_2_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/three_quart_2.jpg)

http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/three_quart_1_thumb.jpg (http://www.zeroniner.com/images/external_links/kif_comps/three_quart_1.jpg)