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Nathan C
02-12-2006, 12:28 PM
Hey guys looking for some input from the civilian/outdoors/camping perspective. I'm trying to put together a kit for emergency's but with civvie stuff. I can survive fine with my military gear for plenty of time. So what I'm looking for is more along the lines of natural diaster, house burned down, chinese are invading type bail out kit.

Being military for the last several years I have no idea where to start something like this. Mainly I'm looking for clothes, camping support type stuff. Enough to get me through most climates for about a week or till I build my Red Dawn-esque fort. Ammo, food and money are given and will be taken care of.

I'd like to fit it all in a Zulu with pockets. I saw in a prior post MM mention Rail rider pants in place of BDU/5.11 pants. The website didn't really give much detail about which is best for what. I need one for cold, one for hot and preferably water-proof.

Shirts. Any suggestions? Keeping hot and cold in mind.

Jackets, soft shells, hard shells, etc. What the advantages and disadvantages of each? Wind and wet being factors.

Cooking gear. No nothing outside of MRE heater. What's the better for this role(as there usually is no best of anything).

Water purification. Outside of boiling and the PUR pitcher I again know nothing much.

And last of all make sure all clothes are stylish /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Prefer grays and more neutral colors, just in case those Chinese do decide to invade and need to keep low profile /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Oh and I know some threads on tents and sleeping bags have been started, but feel free to toss in opinions keeping in mind this may be needed for sub-0 temps.

eggroll
02-12-2006, 12:39 PM
stoves

I have had good luck with MSR whisperlite(fits inside a 2qt pocket, bottles can fit inside a claymore) and now the Jetboil PCS stoves (fits in a 1L pocket)

Water puro MSR MIOX pen, Potable Aqua tablets (now issue), Katadyns and PURs are brands to look for.

Nathan C
02-12-2006, 12:43 PM
How much would I need for say weeks worth of survival?

Found the Whisperlite in my DBT catalog. It lists premium white gas. Is there a difference between that and regular fuel?

The MIOX is there too, didn't see the tabs you listed though

ZS Gunny
02-12-2006, 01:24 PM
Nathan:

Whitegas is super pure fuel used in most MSR stoves. I went for the MSR Dragonfly (MSRP $129) as it can burn Kero, Gas, White Gas, Alcohol and Diesel. You can find their stuff at <a href="http://www.msr.com" target="_blank">http://www.msr.com (http://www.msr.com)</a> or at any local sporting goods store.

For water purification I'm using a MSR mini-micro waterworks EX. This small filter is great at what it does and I also like the fact that it docks to Nalgene bottles and my MSR dromerdy(sp) 10L bag.

When putting together a BOB (bug out bag) you need to consider the following:
1) Shelter
2) Clothing
3) Food
4) Rescue

Since I don't know where you're primary AO is, lets start with the basics.

1) Shelter. I'm going with a Eureka Backcountry 1 tent as it'll fit into my EMR's side pocket (thanks Hanzo). Others such as RJSteed, who has an excellent BOB set up, are using a series of waterproof tarps for their shelter.

2) Clothing. I like to stick with the mantra: layers layers layers. In my pack you'll find a set of good thermal underware, two pair of Smartwool socks, a Beanie (or watchcap or skull cap if you prefer). Underneath all of that you'll find Underarmour boxer-briefs and a UA loosegear shirt.
For my mid-level layer, I'm packing two full sets of BDU's in two different colors. I like quality BDU's due to their functionality and durability.
My third layer consists of a Polartek SPEAR fleece jacket ($58.50 delivered from EBAY just search SPEAR Fleece).
Lastly I have a synthetic filled water/wind proof jacket from Gander Mountain. This jacket is from their guide series and is a bit expensive but worth its weight in gold.
I also keep a baseball cap on my head usually and a boonie hat in my pack.

Food. You're gonna get hungry yet with the Zulu, you're space is limited. I'd recommend carrying 5-6 packets of Mainstay compressed food rations. These can be bought from Brigade Quartermasters website for $24 for a 5 pack which is enough to last you a week. I also carry some simple soup mixes, Clif Bars, instant oatmeal and whatever pogey bait I happen to have at hand.

Rescue: If you want to be found you're going to want some method of being found. I carry a little signaling mirror in case my Surefire E2D ever goes down. I also have a cheap 'survival' whistle.

A few other items you might want to consider:

100y of Paracord (www.supplycaptain.com)
E-Tool
Hatchet &amp; or a Camp Saw
Duct Tape--I carry 90mph tape from Brigade
Lighting: I carry a Surefire E2D with 3 boxes of batteries stores in a small Pelican case. I carry a few light sticks as well.
Knife(s) and Sharpener
Sleeping bag/system (www.snugpakusa.com)
Water purification pills
Pen and Notepad (I use a space pen and a writeintherain memo pad)
Gatoraid packets
Nalgene water bottle
Multi-tool (I'm using a leatherman charge xti)
Medical Kit

I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton of items. Feel free to e-mail me at bdeauman@gmail.com and we'll toss ideas back and forth.

Brad

ZS Gunny
02-12-2006, 01:26 PM
Quick follow-up: Has anyone used the MSR Waterfiltration pen yet?

Nathan C
02-12-2006, 01:56 PM
I live in Texas for the next couple months, but by summer I'll be back in Colorado, hence the need for cold weather stuff.

Alot of my military stuff will transfer over. Illumination, VS-17 panel, medical kit, multi-tool, 550 cord, tomahawk, etc. So I should be straight with most of that. I tend to shy away from polyester stuff, maybe it's just the firefighter in me, but it scares me. I actually didn't like the UnderArmor shirts for cold weather. Up in the turret the wind was strong and they seem to loose effectivness with wind.

I think my biggest area's would be shelter and clothes. I've been looking between The ICE hard and soft shells, OR Mithril, REI Ultralight, some of the rail rider stuff, but really don't know enough about any of them.

Now normally I pack my military stuff in packages of 3 sets(underwear, t-shirt, socks), what kind of t-shirts are cheap but have some function and different colors? I'll have about 10 total sets, probably only 5 of t-shirt and underwear, but socks I don't skimp.

ZS Gunny
02-12-2006, 02:11 PM
Nathan:

I use UA for its wicking properties only during the winter. For warmpth I stick with my good thermals.

During the summer I just wear a BDU blouse when I can get away with it. T-shirts are a dime a dozen, if you're against wicking clothing like UA or the generic equiv, shoot with what you're comfortable in wearing.

One quick note: If you can swing it, get your day kits (shirt, underware, socks) and vaccum seal them. This really knocks the hell out of the Cu. In.

Nathan C
02-12-2006, 02:19 PM
I use Freezer ziplocks, and push the air out. I don't like having something start out small get bigger with no where to put it /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I do like the loose fit Under Armor stuff, but again the polyester just doesn't bring up pretty pictures in a flash fire scenario. Which may be a moot point if I'm running from Martians, but ya never know they may have ray guns. Guess I'll just use my ol' cotton goodies.

Any suggestions on an all weather jacket, down to say 20 degrees or so. I'll have to really layer to get good for below 0, but hey I grew up in Minnesota, I can handle it.

ThePrepared_com
02-12-2006, 05:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by eggroll:
stoves

I have had good luck with MSR whisperlite(fits inside a 2qt pocket, bottles can fit inside a claymore) and now the Jetboil PCS stoves (fits in a 1L pocket)

Water puro MSR MIOX pen, Potable Aqua tablets (now issue), Katadyns and PURs are brands to look for. </div></div>I agree, the Whisperlite is an excellent stove. I prefer the Internation model because of its ability to burn multiple fuels. This can be a great advantage!

I was extremely impressed with how fast I was able to boil water at 6500 feet with it.

As far as some of the smaller items go I would check out Patricks essay on the "Possibles Pouch". I found it extremely helpful.
http://www.kifaru.net/possibls.htm

Nathan C
02-12-2006, 05:28 PM
Ya the possibles pouch is basically a larger version of a military E&amp;E, with civilianized items. I should be good there. I'll make a large kit and stuff it in my E&amp;E pouch(go figure eh?).

I still haven't figured out much on the cold/wet weather clothes/jackets. Or pants I guess. The more and more I look at the rail riders, the better they seem for overall use.

Oh ya got some Dickies T-shirts while shopping tonight. So now I have a start to a BOB and chicks dig the Dickies /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Hanzo
02-12-2006, 06:57 PM
Gunny,

Forget about the water purifying machines. Stick with the tablets. They're smaller, lighter, less expensive, unbreakable and generally do a better job.

I've used the Aqua Pur ones and they work pretty well but they don't protect against crypto. They also make your water taste funny.

Use these instead (http://www.rei.com/product/47575360.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC)

ZS Gunny
02-13-2006, 08:12 AM
Hanzo,

I've already got the aforementioned gear /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif That being said, the MSR filter makes the water taste better than any filtered/treated water I've tried. Hell, I caught my fiance filtering the tap for her running bottle one time to 'Try it out'

For a backup I carry some water-tablets made by Micropur in addition to a tiny bottle of Porta-Aqua I just found in there. Lol Sheash, I think I'm set.

Jedi
02-14-2006, 03:48 PM
Nathan,

I'm still building mine and it isn't quite done but here are a couple links to threads where a couple guys spelled theirs out. I took several ideas.

They have pictures and broken down lists of items.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&amp;f=123&amp;t=391890

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?...mp;pagenumber=2 (http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=427372&amp;perpage=25&amp;highl ight=bob&amp;pagenumber=2)

Eh, it looks like the others have gone into archive. Rj's is a great one and there is a good one in the second link.

Woods Walker
02-14-2006, 09:40 PM
Nathan

“keeping in mind this may be needed for sub-0 temps”

I have spent a great deal of time (too much) working on my survival pack. Everything you have been told on this thread seems sound but I have to tell you that a paratipi with small stove can do a lot of wonderful things.

1. Cook food.
2. Shelter
3. Purify water
4. Raise your core body temp.

All that for only 6-7 lbs. No need for fuel just pick it up. Exploded house bits or trees are just fine. /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif . I have camped out in cold winter temps with out a heated shelter and just went slowly down hill. After a week I came to realize that in a few more weeks I would go belly up. But just ˝ an hour of over a 100 inside the paratipi can reverse a whole day of freezing cold. Kick back and cook some food boil some water. Its 5 below and snowing outside so what life is good. You can even dry your gloves and socks. Heck it is so good that I often crawl out with just my shorts on (no boots) when nature calls. Cold feet don’t stay could long at a 100 degrees about the outside temp. Paratipi packs down crazy small for the shelter’s size.

Jedi

Have a CAR-15 looks a bit like your gun but has a light weight barrel. I removed the stock for a standard one and carry the Glock 19. Thinking of dumping the CAR for my Hungarian AK.

Nathan C
02-15-2006, 04:33 AM
I gotta get with one of the guys that owns a sports store from my deployed unit. He just got the Rock River Arms contract. Get me an entry tactical w/surefire rails, green hardware and Aimpoint.

There's a guy by Hood that does custom gun work. Was pondering getting my G17 two toned ranger green/OD. He had one at the gun show that was tan/CB, surprisingly looked really good. <a href="http://www.oneholegunworks.com" target="_blank">http://www.oneholegunworks.com (http://www.oneholegunworks.com)</a>

I'll have to look into the stove. How fragile is it? Anything I carry has to be able to be chucked from a second story apt/or similar height(in the ruck of course). Does anybody keep a copy of important documents in their bail bag or another location? Seems in a Katrina/terrorist-electronic incident even a lock box at the bank would be no good. Same with keeping precious metals there. Maybe it'll be like Road Warrior and we'll just fight over fuel anyways :p

Woods Walker
02-15-2006, 05:27 AM
The wood stove is real strong. I dropped mine, Kicked it. Burned hot fires 100's of times. If it gets bent just bend it back. Stainless is good like that.

Nathan C
02-15-2006, 03:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Jedi:
Nathan,

I'm still building mine and it isn't quite done but here are a couple links to threads where a couple guys spelled theirs out. I took several ideas.

They have pictures and broken down lists of items.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&amp;f=123&amp;t=391890

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?...mp;pagenumber=2 (http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=427372&amp;perpage=25&amp;highl ight=bob&amp;pagenumber=2)

Eh, it looks like the others have gone into archive. Rj's is a great one and there is a good one in the second link. </div></div>That second link is pretty good, but what's up with the dude with insulated 18 wheelers? Not just one, but multiple trailers /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

wolfe
02-16-2006, 01:31 AM
"use Freezer ziplocks"

these vacuum bags work great and you can reuse in the field
Space Bag
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=12264&amp;src=CROS&amp;affiliateid=590

Nathan C
02-16-2006, 05:00 AM
I used something similar to those packing up for the box. They weren't as good as I would have liked. I kept popping the zipper off, or they wouldn't stay sealed. The ended up taking more room. They work well for some stuff, but the majority, they either didn't stay shut or took up more room than without.

It worked really good for the bug net, sweater and long sleeved items, decent on DCU sets, not much better on socks and t-shirts. The quart ziplocks seem to work the best for sock/t-shirt packages cause it's small enough to shove anywhere. I think for sleeping bag I could only fit the green bag without constantly popping the zipper or seal. It was ok for that except sleeping bag is always out, and I only had issue duffles, so putting it at the best packing location(bottom) was a pain.

All in all I give those types of self compressable bags a good for some stuff, not so good for others. Mission dependant.

Ralph
02-16-2006, 06:42 AM
The Space Bags work fine if not overfilled. I use them for the emergency clothing I carry in the truck. I needed compression and waterproofness and they filled the bill admirably.

Fold things neatly and start filling the bag about 2/3 down from edge to edge. Don't let the bag bulge. Close the ziploc securely and begin rolling tightly. The act of rolling will move the stuff toward the end with the valve. Once the air is exhausted, unroll and fold the bag to fit your storage bag. I find the small and medium size bags are best for clothes. The mediums are about 16" wide, so fit neatly in most larger packs.

I've packed a complete set of clothes together with a pair of boots a pair of USAF mukluks &amp; liners and two pair of small (Swiss Army) wooden snowshoes in a USAF flight bag with room to spare.

Socks and liners - 3 sets, long and short underwear - 2 sets, Polartec-100 set, shirt and trousers - 2 sets, wool sweater, USAF MA1 jacket &amp; hood, rain gear, Goretex parka, wool cap, Goretex cap &amp; liner, wool scarf, insulated gloves, unlined gloves, Goretex overmitts. There are probably a few other items I've forgotten. All of this stuff is in SpaceBags.

Sleeping bags are in telecompressor bags. Most of the other stuff isn't compressable.

Works for me.

Hanzo
02-19-2006, 05:26 PM
Update:

The water purification tablets I mentioned above...DON'T GET THEM.

I picked up some today and not until you open it up and read on the back does it say how dangerous these things are. If you touch it with your skin it will give you chemical burns for crying out loud. I'm going to take them back to REI right away and hopefully I can get my money back even though the package is open.

Nathan C
02-19-2006, 05:52 PM
Hmmm maybe it's made out of the same stuff as those blue toilet bowl cleaners. Not suppose to touch those either.

I guess if your teeth turn blue you'll know /images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I think I'll stick with something that uses charcoal or similar.

Oh and back to original topic, I was watching a 9/11 documentary(sure are alot lately). So the idea of a HEPA mask crosses my mind to stick in an urban disaster kit. Do you guys think that's too much? Too paranoid? Most likely I'll be with working EMS/Fire or military, so I have access to pro-mask/SCBA. But right now I have neither while I'm in transition. Just a thought for debris mask.

Oh and I went to lapolicegear.com after reading a reveiw on lightfighter.net about a bail out bag lapg.com have on special. $34, can't beat that price. Maybe stick that in the top of the Zulu for important docs, and stay low profile in the city.

Hanzo
02-19-2006, 06:11 PM
Well, the Aqua Pur tablets are fine. These other ones are just nasty.

anthracitic
02-19-2006, 06:22 PM
http://www.hydrationtech.com/merchant.mv?Screen=SFNT&amp;Store_Code=RHTI
Don't miss the emergency items thread, to be found in the essays section on Kifaru.net on the hunting side. Some good EQ ideas from various members, myself incl.

anthracitic
02-19-2006, 06:25 PM
http://www.houserice.com/quehatwitbra.html

One should be truly prepared for the Chinese invasion-